Toole and why I like Tone Controls


In another thread I was pointed to a really excellent paper by Dr. Floyd Toole (he doesn't use the Dr. but it is well earned) on getting to neutral.

So I want to go back with a little history. In all of audio reproduction theater sound reproduction is among the most rigidly controlled areas of audio. From the needs of Dolby Surround playback, to introduction of acoustic decay requirements introduced by THX, and more, the attempt to deliver a uniform theater experience has been a subject of serious effort by many, and continues to be so.

That's in sharp contrast to consumer music.

So while this article focuses heavily on theater sound, it also touches on just how difficult it is for even theater sound experts to get to neutral. If they can't do it, imagine how hard it is for music!

And, yes, I'm going to hijack Dr. Toole's paper to plug tone controls. With all the guessing that goes on, not using tone controls, and not having great tone controls to use is folly.  Quote me. I said FOLLY!

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20200201/17839.pdf

Also, personal request, if anyone knows how I can get in touch with him and be a fan boy, please let me know. :) I'd love to hang with him, and it turns out he's a local.
erik_squires

Showing 3 responses by elliottbnewcombjr

Simple Path makes sense, EXCEPT, lack of controls leaves you with no control when adjustments would increase enjoyment.

Controls, done right, do nothing until desired/engaged. Optional Tone Control Bypass are liked by many.

Idealy: REMOTE VOLUME, and REMOTE BALANCE.

I see this as distinct/related/interactive parts

1. TONE controls

2. BALANCE Control

3. IMAGING Refinement (assuming decent imaging to begin with).

4. LOUDNESS: AUTOMATIC Low Volume Contour.
....................................

1. TONE Control.

1a. Generally, I prefer listening to what artist/engineer put out. If I don’t like it, I am not likely to listen again. However, they certainly can be beneficial.

1b. Tone Controls, in some situations, can ’fix’ asymmetrical/difficult listening spaces, finding a general adjustment for the system.

1c. In the past, other systems, I’ve tried for ’perfection’ with advanced equalizers, pro microphones, ... it was a trap, back to basics please.
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2. BALANCE. System’s Balanced, Great.

2a. After that, I find for some tracks, tweaking balance a little can make a large improvement. Adjusting Imaging ’opens up’ all the instruments. It could be/occasionally is the engineering; your side wall; a system imbalance; a slightly weak tube ...

2b. Remote Balance is the easiest to make very slight and quick adjustment from the listening position.

2c. PHONO/TT setup (skip to 3 if no phono)

Anti-skate is critical for balance/imaging/groove/stylus wear.

Get it right, re-check it occassionally. (re-check tracking force occassionally also). I just learned a lot due to an arm with only one 2.5g weight.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/fidelity-research-fr-54-tonearm-anti-skate

1. TT dial/hanging weight/rod with notches often are not perfect, or even close!

2. Stylus shape varies the effect of inward skate.

3. Smooth disk method works very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4VT-JsG_MM

4. Stylus with brush effects both downward force, AND inward/anti-skate. Using the smooth disk, leaving the brush DOWN while adjusting anti-skate proved successful.

5. I use my protractor/overhang/null point disc, it has enough smooth area

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU6AD2E/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVTQzSDhOUThNS0EyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjY1MDI1OVdUU0MzS0k5V1ZRJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5OTI2MjcyNTBJWEI0TkkwNzZBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfaHFwX3NoYXJlZCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

6. I saw a video of someone using a blank CD. However, small diameter, be ready to catch the arm before it goes off the outside edge onto .....

7. Listening. This disc is my final confirmation/tweak.

Side 2, tracks 2 and 3: Three distinct guitars, and equal audience noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_in_San_Francisco

It is a very good example of 2a. above, how a slight tweak can make a large difference.

Eurythmics, Any: Annie Lennox/Dave’s Symetrical effects; Cassandra Wilson, Blue Light Till Dawn; Fontella Bass, New Look. Your favorite. Voices engineered to be dead center. (as long as they are not moving around the stage, i.e. live performances). Get them center, then, look a bit to the left: can you imagine them over there? Look a bit right, can you imagine ... tweak, dead on!

NOT Hot Sardines. (Great Jazz Band). Singer is OFF Center, leaving room for tap dancer, staying close to Piano. She may be right (saw her live at SOPAC), or left, Donna saw her live at Joe’s Pub, at this performance

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07NBPDG8P?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp_srdg2
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3. IMAGING.

3a. Balance as noted above.

3b. Boost favorite instrument, i.e. Jazz Bass; Piano; Sax/Trumpet/...; Voice. At decent volume, just change the engineer’s choices to suit. Just a slight touch, only for that track ...
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4. LOUDNESS: (AUTOMATIC Low Volume Contour). TRICKY
Essentially Bass Boost at Low Volumes. Good but hard to get right. Only needed if you listen at low volumes, i.e. while reading, or dreaded unwanted visitors arrive ...

4a. Mis-named, thus mis-understood, often improper implementation.
LOW BOOST; LOW VOL+; some name short enough to print on panel face.

4b. It does not know your speaker’s efficiency, so, how can it be automatically correct?

4c. Boosting/retaining bass, i.e. Jazz Bass, Low Piano notes, at low volume listening is much better than losing it.

4d. It should begin and work below your ’normal’ listening level, thus 2 volume controls are needed for proper implementation.

4e. Some old pre-amps/receivers had two volume controls.

First, Loudness Volume Control to un-engaged position. Then main volume for preferred listening volume. Then reduce volume using Loudness Volume Control, thereby progressively engaging LOW Volume Boost.

4f. Lacking that rare feature, you need to achieve the same arrangement with a pre-amp with LOUDNESS engaged when you want it.

First get a volume ’mix’ with Loudness OFF.

You need to find when your preamp’s loudness contour begins when ON. Then set pre-amp just above that, and use your amps volume to get your preferred volume, and volume increase, and back to ’normal’ when done listening.

Then, use the preamp to reduce volume, thus beginning the progressive bass boost. Also back to normal when done listening.

If you have two cartridges with different outputs, use the amp’s volume.

Loudness OFF. Amp half way up. Preamp half way up. Raise preamp, then lower preamp, until you hear bass weaken. Raise a bit, that’s where you want Loudness Boost to begin. Loudness ON: lower pre-amp volume: bass remains, not apparently boosted.

Amp volume control for louder, Preamp volume control for reduced, below normal volume listening.

Easy!

noble100
1

Setup ONCE, on, enjoy, at the ready:

1. remote balance tweak from listening position

2. remote volume from listening position

2a. Loudness Contour is automatically engaged by lowering the volume whereby bass boost is progressively engaged.

This, as noted, is misunderstood, and most often improperly setup, hence disliked, omitted, turned off. OK, but, low volume bass boost, done right, is natural sounding, retaining your involvement even at low volume listening.

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BALANCE:

ON: Default centered. Mostly not needed.

A track that might be improved? tweak a bit left (or right).  From your chair, instant results/evaluation. It is remarkable how everything can 'open up' with just a slight adjustment

Back to center

Maybe tomorrow, another track needs a slight fix.

A 'greatest hits' disc, compilation disc, various artists: i.e. 12 different recording environments, 12 artists/engineers, using ____? monitoring system, this is the most frequent use of remote balance tweak.

LOUDNESS

set it up once. then, for Loudness (low volume bass boost) it is automatic 
1. on, normal listening volume is default, no bass boost
2. remote volume
2a. up no bass boost
2b. down from default volume after a bit begins automatic bass boost

........................................

I like to adjust things? In the beginning, yes, then, when confident leave it alone. 

I will not be beaten by a machine. I read the entire manual, circles and arrows, dogeared pages.

Elderly here will remember the late 70's, VCR's, with the worst instruction books ever written. College graduates could not set the clock, thus worthless.

I learn every option, prove it all works within the return period. (These days I've already researched, no so before internet)

Then, initial period: evaluate any option that I might use or want to understand even if I don't think I will ever use it.

You might have noticed, I try to share/explain things for people who don't RTFM. I want them to get the best they can out of  .....


noble1001

yes, it can be: huh? tweak, better? a bit more?

then, go back, start that track or LP over, enjoy it like never before.

sometimes, after adjusting the 1st track, all the following tracks, LP or CD sound better than ever.

If you listen to a lot of small Jazz groups (or chamber music ...), imaging of the few specific instruments is a more frequent experience, you are pre-disposed to notice something poorly engineered, greatly engineered, or a tweak might improve ....

My friend loaned me an Oscar Peterson Trio, Live (I have a lot of Oscar). It was so weirdly engineered I still cannot believe it.

Drums Left, Piano Center, Bass Right, should be terrific as most of OPT are, but:

Piano high freqencies out of left speaker; low notes from right speaker; and, during a Drum solo, the engineer moves the drummer to center, leaving brush work left, and the kick drum right. 

I was going to turn it off, when I decided, I'll go to the far corner of the room, listen from there, get away from potential for imaging. Man those guys sure can play!