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Tone controls -- assuming you're ok with them, when would you try them?

So, I'm learning and experimenting w/ speaker/sub placement. I've had some success. Presently using my old Adcom GTP-400 preamp (treble, bass, and loudness/contour controls). It's likely my next amps won't have tone controls (nor balance). 

Beyond compensating for old/bad recordings, I realize there is, nevertheless, a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation. Imagine that debate was settled and tone controls were deemed worthwhile, overall. IF you'll stipulate to all that, my question is this:

QUESTION: If the sound is not right in your room, and you've placed speakers as best you can, what do you try next? At what point do you go for tone controls?

Perhaps some just go for tone controls from the get-go…happy to hear from you all, too.

FWIW, I saw this nice list from @erik_squires on this topic:   
erik_squires8,293 posts
08-19-2017 11:06am
Tone controls help us compensate for differences in recording trends across decades of recordings.
Tone controls help us adjust our sound quality to different listening situations and volumes.
Tone controls help us adjust for speaker placement.
Tone controls are much cheaper and more efficient way of doing this than most other solutions.
A good tone control is a lot easier to implement than a good equalizer. Fewer bands so more affordable to use high quality parts.

hilde45

Showing 6 responses by decooney

decooney
2,334 posts
 
@erik_squires 
...Meaning, it's' good to set up your system so that it's in the middle of the lane for the music you listen to, at the volumes you listen to. If you like rock or heavy metal, get speakers for that, instead of buying neutral and jacking up the bass and treble. 

But, once you know where the middle of the road is, your tone controls act as subtle adjustments. Also, tone controls can be lifestyle tools. :) Need to keep the speakers too close to the rear wall? Turn the bass down. 

+1, good advice.  

And, I was anti-tone controls for decades until I heard some really good preamps/integrated amps with them.

A good friend and total tube nut with several custom built boutique tube preamps recently picked up a nice tube preamp with quality tone controls.  He absolutely loves it.  He uses it for (-1) tuning of high frequencies (mainly for streamed content) when listening to older/bad recordings of tracks he enjoys listening to.  Says it expanded his listening library. "can listen to anything now".  

Now it's his favorite preamp in his tube preamp collection.  
decooney
2,334 posts
 

"Focused on developing outboard (i.e. separate) tone controls for audiophiles and music lovers who miss them. Delicious Decibels". :)    

http://www.deliciousdecibels.com/about-us.html



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decooney
2,334 posts
 
...The purist ideology falls flat more often than not. Also, why NOT use tone controls if they are otherwise transparent? Why should I go out looking for a new preamp/amp/power cable if the tone control is right in front of me??  ...

And those same purists use interconnect and speaker cables as passive tone controls, while tube folks roll tubes to change tone too. Yet some rather go spend big $$$ on a new preamp or power cables over tone controls with hopes of changing the tone and sound in some way.  It's all good, just interesting how we all approach it in different ways.  

One way or the other there is some tone-controlling going on. :) 
decooney
2,334 posts
 
I have a Manley Stingray II, which has a REC OUT / LOOP IN capability. Thinking of adding a Schiit Loki to tweak tone, especially for low volume night listening.

Some reviewers have tried the $149 Loki thinking they would just buy/return just to test it, and ended up keeping it. While it might not make sense for an ultra high-end $ transparent system, it could be a great solution for a mid-fi, secondary, or den room system. SG did a review on it too, video: https://youtu.be/94Nr6JR_Whg
decooney
2,334 posts
 
@cscrutinizer
As I recall Holger’s Erhard Audio "Aretha" 6SL7 based preamp with tone controls. Off the top of my head don’t remember if it has the tone defeat or loudness switch options or not, or if those were available when he ordered it a few years ago I think it was. He’s swapped out the coupling caps to try a few others to test, and the stock Mundorfs were fine too he indicated http://www.erhard-audio.com/Aretha.html

decooney
2,334 posts
 
@cscrutinizer, 
Thanks, decooney. I'm looking for a tube pre and am considering the Aretha and Don Sachs. I've read only a few, not too descriptive, but positive posts about the Aretha. The Sachs has had all rave reviews. I would have Don add a tape loop for a Loki or other tone control.

cscrutinizer,
I'm not sure if you noticed the option-upgrade selection and the tone defeat feature which is kinda neat, and how the optional loudness function is actually invoked is kinda throw-back interesting.  If you could completely defeat those functions out of the signal path I'm assuming you'd have a purist grade preamp too, if that's the case.

He's compared it to his own Shindo and Dennis Had Inspire preamps too, which he enjoys, yet this is the one preamp he ends up using particularly since moving away from vinyl to R2R Ladder DACs and lossless streamed content, low wattage amps, and high-efficiency speakers which tend to reveal a lot with his main system, fwiw. 
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