hi patrick
good post
much of what you say is indeed correct
however
in my experience
bandwidth, linearity ,dynamic range,phase integrity,neutrality are what makes the groove special to me
and lets not mentoin that inky black background
i have lent my groove out to friends and have had positive
and negative reactions to its performance
but all who have heard it in my own system understand why
i rate it so highly
today i had an interesting experience
a friend of mine has fallen in love with the performance of
the living voice aviator obxr loudspeakers
he has been offered an ex demo pair of mk1s for 2750
or he can buy a new pair of mk2s for circa 4000
he has ordered tead amps and asked me if i wouldn't mind
using my system for a home dem
obviously i agreed
the result was the mk2s worked in my system and the mk1s didn't
when questioning the dealer about this he replied
the phasing and linearity of the mk2s has been greatly improved via the crossover network which is now simpler.
the mk1s sounded flat and disjointed in comparison
my friend did order the mk2s [lucky so and so]
the point i do try to make in my posts is about system synergy
to get the best out of any product you must first fully
understand its potential and its limitations
for instance
if i place my groove+ upon a metal support my system instantly fails to perform
almost to the same degree as the living voice speaker demo
in my experience this is true for all other high end audio products as well.
have you actually heard the full tead amp?
or have i upset you with my phase nverting comment?
if so my most sincere apologies to you
what i should have said is phase linearity
we all understand that there is more than one way to create great music in the home
but we all have our own experiences good or bad.
thank you for correcting me on that one
best regards
uktel |
uktl wrote:
"many valve amps struggle with the groove because they thenselves are phase inverting which basicly kills the grooves performance"
uktl, I think this is unlikely because about 50% of all records out there are recorded with inverted polarity anyway... only a polarity switch will allow you to hear these correctly (and not everyone can hear the differences between absolute polarity anyway - channels out of phase are a different matter of course)...
... and multitrack rock recordings may have some channels recorded with absolute and some channels with inverted polarity.
For these reasons, if there is a mismatch between the Evans and tube amps it probably has to do with impedance and gain issues rather than polarity. |
hang on in there mike
good things do come for those who wait
cmc
have you heard the linear Bs
they really are something special
after i heard the full te amp combo i found that i couldn't
listen to my own system for weeks
after plussing the groove, adding the vibe pulse
i feel i am much closer
i really cant wait to get those Bs though
they really do close the gap between being there and hifi
uktel |
yes the old power supply is always a question, i have a few of the new ps audio noise harvesters spread around, also use a bpt bp2 unit for all but amps, which i use a brickwall unit, the harvesters have a light included and when flashing they are at work, there have been only a few times when they were not flashing, and its been during the day time of the work week, the night hours are the worst according to the harvesters, yes i dont turn anything off, only when we leave for a long period of time, in the new orleans area its still summer and the a/c is still cranking so as for temperature its in the low 70s in the house, the thing is its always been this way and the changes in musical presentation or not tied to that, tom recommends 72 hours for almost complete breakin as per the instruction manual, i guess i am going to have to look at some baseball and do some of g m c s 70s outdoor rock and roll tonight on the system, thanks guys and have a good one, mike |
The power quality fluctuates a lot here is the states. That can have a major influence on sound, however, nighttime is usually the best time for good power off of the grid. I am two doors from the main substation for Dallas and it can be hell. The spikes and dips are notorious. I have quit leaving my system on all the time as two of Tom's boxes have been impacted. I now have Isoclean transformers and power filters in line and am working on a new panel and a large in line transformer for the panel. It is amazing how important the quality of power has become for me. Both as a problem (power grid) and a joy (Tom's work). I have heard of the power controller that Tom and Bob have out. Bob is a real analog fan and pioneer. I bought a turntable ring clamp from him a while back. His turntable is quite a feat.
It's amazing thing with the noise floor. the more it drops, the more I am pulled into the music. It's not lava I get out of my speakers, it is almost a vacuum, leaving only the darkness of space and a strong feeling of calm. The calm thing is not something I would expect with rock and roll but it is there. The clarity of each note and the spacial quality of the music places you in the environment of a circa 1970's outdoor concert under the stars.
|
sorry mike
another contributing factor that i have found that can cause
the sort of sound you describe is temperature
if like here in the uk autumn is upon us
colder temperatures affect cartridge and loudspeaker performance
i use a 150w lamp above my turntable
this seems to help quite a bit
best regards
uktel |
hi mike
i have found that at different times audio systems do sound better than at others
weekends for instance and evenings seem to yield the best sound quality
i believe that the wheels of industry [particularly computers] hash up the electrical supply
however
the burn in period can throw up some weird and wonderful changes
do you leave it powered up all the time?
i find that from cold it takes a good hour of passing music
before it starts to really perform and then continues to improve slowely thereafter
is your cartridge fully run in?
best of luck
uktel |
hi gmc
if tom continues to lower that noise floor
how long will it be before molten lava spews up out of our speakers?
did you know that tom designed a turntable power supply
for bob benn of sound engineering
bob sells these in the us
well worth checking out
best regards
uktel |
hey uktel, thanks for getting tom to chime in on this thread, i have a question on the groove plus for you guys, i have close to forty hours now and i have noticed changes in all areas of music, at times it sounds like its all there, at other times i loose the air, and last night the lower end was not as strong, is this what your breakin experiences were like, mike |
hi pedrillo
it really depends upon the rest of your system
siting of the groove+ is also critical
avoid metal supports and try to keep it far away from large
transformers
i truly believe the groove+ is a top flight performer
but system synergy [and correct loading] will be the final
judge
best regards
uktel |
Uktel, thank you for bringing Tom for a visit.
Tom, that is exciting news on the pulse.
It is hard to imagine you could lower the noise floor even more, but you have done it in the past, and you keep doing it. There are times when the music plays over a background that is not only black, it is in an cool atmosphere of calm. |
Is the groove plus in the top tier of phono pre's? I'm looking to get one of theses: xono, steelhead, jlti, K&K, bat vk10p se or asr exclusive. I want to get the last phono or one that I can live with for a long time. |
Hi Gmc,the Pulse2 provides the Vibe preamp with far greater resolution from lows to highs with lots more air around the performers.Soundstage, the images are more solid with impoved front to back detail.The design of the box reduces field effect caused by the large transformer.Older Pulse's can be upgraded to Pulse 2.Regards to all music lovers, Tom Evans. |
hi gmc
had to ring tom evans up to try to answer your'e last question as i have not ABd the pulse/pulse2 myself
what he said was the 2 is far superior in the frequency
extremes with far greater top to bottom wallop
the difference he claims is not subtle
one thing i have noticed in my own system is that the backing singers have the same sense of power and in room presence as the main vocalist
i asked tom if he wouldn't mind popping in and having a chat with us all
fingers crossed eh
best regards
uktel |
Uktel,
I have though about twinning on Linear A's but will wait for the B's to get full benefit of that technology. (it is a pain sending those 75 lb boxes back and forth to Wales...)
Tell us more about the Pulse 2. I have seen or heard nothing on this.
Thanks
|
hi gmc and mike
gmc are youre speakers bi ampable
i dont know your speakers personally
i recently had a chat with tom evans regarding speakers with
low impedance in the bass units
he suggested 2 x linear As but both with the high impedance
and low impedance transformers in the same chassis and using them as monos
so effectively one linear a drives the left speaker
low imp for bass high for treble
the other drives the right speaker
in this configuration you would also get a 2 or 3 db volume increase
interesting thought eh?
has anybody else out there tried the pulse2
its as ugly as sin[looks like a small linear a]
it is meant to be quite an upgrade over the pulse
i havn"t heard them side by side so cannot actually comment on this myself
all the best fellas
uk tel |
hey gmc, when you start saying that i might be done stuff, i wonder could that ever be possible to a audiophile, the tom evens equipment is as good as it gets, just one piece in my system has made a difference that is on the side of musical satisfaction deluxe, being sunday i am playing a lot of beatles lps while watching football, the only thing that went wrong today is the saints found the lost column, o well the music and beatles are pulling me through, will be looking into further upgrades with tom evens gear, mike |
Uktel, I will be selling some serious stuff in the next few months in order to get the B's, That is fate. My speakers at 91.5 and at 4 ohms are begging me to get it done asap. They will then seriously open up. Hell, i might even be finished at that point....well, kinda. |
gmc
just trying to slam in a pair of linear Bs
absolutely awesome
music does'nt get much better?
the linear a is one of the most revealing amps out there
but sadly the Bs are in existence
god help me
uktel |
I'm with ya Uktel.
Phase flat and linear... and a noise floor that is in the basement. I have the Vibe/Pulse/Groove+/LinearA chain transmitting the analog signal through Meadowlark time aligned speakers.
The Tom Evans stuff can be ruthless, but when it works, it will make your chest heavy and stand the hairs up on your neck. |
i also have an audiophile friend who uses a klyne 7 and another who has just bought the new audio research phono amp
we have just finished our comparison using the three cartridges that i currently own
jan allaerts mc1s 11 koetsu 80th anniversary[onix] and ortofon jubilee
the experiment was carried out in my own system through
my newly aquired vibe pulse2 preamp
in this system the groove plus absolutely smashed the other phono amps
and did so with all three cartridges
the thing to understand is this was to be the expected result
in my own system which has been optomised to be as phase flat and as linear as i can manage for my limited funds
the key issue i am trying to state is system synergy
if a groove plus doesn't work spectacularly in a given system the question has to be why not?
the groove plus is so revealing that it does show up any weaknesses in the other equipment
many valve amps struggle with the groove because they thenselves are phase inverting which basicly kills the grooves performance
i personally would not change my groove plus for the world at this moment in time as i now seem to spend so much time
just listening to music
best regards
UKTEL |
going to add a few more things i have going on in my system now with the groove+, to try and get the sound i was looking for i was cheating, tracking to light with my airy 3, and not using any damping with my Vpi 10.5i arm, i am sure there are no rules in audio, you try this and that to get to your end, but sometime you wind up off the trail and dont realize it, now tracking a little over two grams the airy is a much better tracker, as far as my ear 834p i had it modded by Mitch, telefunken smooth plates, Herbie's supersonic tube dampers, Black Sand violet z1 power cord, it was a great phono pre but not in the same ball park, i have cream live at Royal Albert Hall playing now and its simply terrific, mike |
My audiophile friend and me did a Phono Stage Comparison between Groove+, Klyne 7 and one I forgot. When we connected the Groove+ after the Klyne we thought both, that we made a fault with interconnects or something like that. Good as it is, but really overhyped.
Btw. Cartridge was UNIverse low output copper, Kuzma Air Line and Graham Phantom. |
hey David, yes the groove plus is quite incredible, all that you have mentioned and then some, what i love is the sweet musical presentation, the realism of the music must be heard to be appreciated, live lps are down right live, the draw back is difficulty of setup, mine is set at 200 ohms and that works well with my zyx airy three x sb, mike |
I now own a regular Groove after selling my ARC PH3SE. I thought I would miss tubes, but after hearing the Groove for the past 2 months I still am not missing tubes. The black background, awesome dynamics, and sweet midrange has me hooked. A more effortless presenation of the music compared to my previous phono amp. The Groove Plus must be incredible.
David |
Congrats. I use the plus with my zyx universe. The synergy between Evans ZYX is great. |
