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Tidal vs Hi Res Files vs CD vs “Netflix”. My test. Incredible!

1.     Introduction. I know there are several threads on different forums about similar subjects, but I couldn’t find one with the exact information I wanted, so I performed my own test.

This is not a scientific test, but I’ve got very consistent results that I want to share and read your opinions.

2.     First, the basics:

        2.1. I listen to ALL of my music streaming Tidal because I like very much its infinite library, the instant access to the music, the chance to make lists with different artists by gender and not having to listen to entire records, the cost of all that music against having a private library of CDs or Hi Res files, the interface, the information of the artists, the chance of finding new and amazing music, etc.

        2.2. If I decide to change Tidal (for CD for instance) it would have to be due to a SIGNIFICANT difference in sound quality.

        2.3. For the test I used the EXACT same system for every source, from the DAC to the speakers (pream, power amp cables, etc). By the way, the system is a hi end and a pretty revealing one, so I can hear the differences easily.

        2.4. I used only Tidal as HiFi streaming service as I don’t have Qobuz where I live (Argentina).

        2.5. For the comparisons I used the same songs in different formats and sources, most of the times (not always), from the same album when possible.

I know you will say that different masters from any band will differ in sound quality and I know that, but I’ve got consistent and very similar results on the different tests and if I have to choose a source with the effort of chasing each song’s perfect recording/master, it would be endless, pointless and very expensive.

        2.6. The songs I used are NOT audiophile grade recordings, BUT they serve for the purpose as they were available from the different sources and my CD collection is very scarce.

        2.7. I did only a few test as I don’t have the time and the patience to spend hours on this subject as I’m not a reviewer and, as I’ve said, the results were consistent.

       2.8. Cables (speaker, USB, RCA/Coaxial, Power, etc) are good enough, but not the most expensive ones (Kimber and DH Labs mostly).

       2.9. I did A/B test with almost no delay, as the three rigs tested were connected to different inputs of my DAC and I only had to switch between them. That helped me A LOT to detect the differences.

3. Rigs for the tests (upstream from the DAC)

       3.1. Computer-USB chain (for Tidal and Hi Res Files):

              Ethernet Cisco Gigabyte Switch and CAT8 Ethernet cable to my Windows 10 Notebook.

              Audinirvana+ for streaming Tidal or playing Hi Res files from the hard disk.

              Audioquest Jitterbug as pasive filter for the USB port.

              Wyred4Sound USB Reclocker with a Swagman Hifi Linear Power Supply.

              Gustard U16 USB to I2S converter (a very good upgrade in my system).

              I2S 2.1 protocol (HDMI) cable to the DAC.

      3.2. CD Player Rig:

             Samsung budget Blue-Ray player.

             Coaxial cable (Kimber 1m long) to my DAC.

       3.3. Netflix Rig:

              LG Smart Tv.

              Cheap Amazon Toslink/Optical cable to my DAC.

The Tv uses WiFi for connection, instead of Ethernet cable like the computer (wich is much better soundwise), and it is not connected to the AC Power conditioners and Filters as the USB-Computer chain is.

4.  Tests

      4.1. CD vs Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA)

          4.1.1.       Band: Huey Lewis and the News

                          Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA) Album: Sports.

                          CD Album: The Best of Huey Lewis.

                          Best sound in order:

                          a.       Tidal MQA

                          b.     CD

                          c.       Tidal HiFi

NOTE: the differences/gaps in sound quality between a; b and c were similar. NOT big, but noticeable and “very consistent with the next tests (A-ha and Coldplay)”. I also think I noticed them as I changed fast from one source to the next. Otherway, I think it would be hard to detect them.

           4.1.2.       Band: A-ha

                           Tidal (MQA) Album: Time and Again, The ultimate A-ha.

                           CD and Tidal (Hi Fi) Album: The Hits of A-ha (not available on MQA).

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.       Tidal MQA

                           b.     CD

                           c.       Tidal HiFi

           4.1.3.       Band: Coldplay

                           Tidal (HiFi and MQA) Album: A head full of dreams.

                           CD Album: A head full of dreams.

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.   Tidal MQA

                           b.   CD

                           c.     Tidal HiFi

      4.2. Hi Res (PCM 96/24) vs Tidal (only Hi Fi, not MQA)

           4.2.1.       Band: Pink Floyd.

                           Album (for both sources): The Division Bell.

HiRes file was a LITTLE better. May be so little that it could be placebo effect and so little that it doesn’t justify having HiRes files for computer playback.

     4.3. Netflix vs Tidal (Hifi)

Here I don’t have many choices as Netflix is not an audio streaming app.

I found the difference by chance. Nevertheless, before the tests, I always had the feeling that the sound coming from Netflix was somehow better than my USB rig, but I thought it wasn’t possible and it was only my imagination considering all the money I spent on my USB-Computer rig. BOY, I WAS WRONG!!

I only compared a couple of songs, but I didn’t need more than that a couple of direct comparison as I find ALL of the songs to sound better than my USB rig because I’ve been listening to the latter for a long time and, eventhough every recording is different, I know how it sounds my Rig in general (tone, soundstage, layering, imagining, impact, bass, etc).

The songs I used to make the A/B comparison are “Still falling for you” from Ellie Goulding from Bridget Jones’s baby Soundtrack and “Nothing’s gonna hurt you baby” from Cigarettes After Sex from Kidnapping Stella Soundtrack.

Well, eventhough they are NOT audiophile songs, the sound from my Tv (I repeat with wifi, cheap cable and NO AC conditioning) is SO MUCH better and analog than the one from my USB rig, that I still cannot believe it!!!

I cannot compare it to any other format than Tidal HiFi, but the difference is SO BIG that I think not even Tidal MQA on my USB-Computer rig comes close.

5.       Conclusions

      5.1. I know that if I get a better CD player I will get much better sound, but I also think that if I get a good streamer-transport, I will also improve my Tidal sound quality a lot, may be by a similar margin.

      5.2. So, Im after a good streamer-transport to get AT LEAST the sound quality I have with my Netflix rig. If I dont get it with it, I will recomend Tidal to hire Netflix engineers!!! J

6.       I would love to hear some other audiophiles “similar” experiences with CD vs Tidal vs other hifi digital formats and sources.

Please only post about real experiences, not getting to technical, as it gets boring and somehow useless.


plga
mtdining's avatar
mtdining
131 posts
 
I've no doubt your reclocker and such are degrading the signal. I tried several "affordable" forum inspired steps before I decided I could afford a decent DAC. Now I have a Roon Nucleus feeding an Ayre Codex. I listen to much more expensive digital front ends every day. My system at home is good enough, however, that I can hear the difference between music I stream and music I purchase on cd and rip. If I listen to a particular album on Tidal more than a couple times, I'll buy it. I am very happy that Tidal is as good as it is, giving me access to casual listening selection with nearly limitless choice!
david_ten
5,480 posts
 
"The Tv uses WiFi for connection, instead of Ethernet cable like the computer (wich is much better soundwise)"

I assume you are saying that Ethernet is superior. (?)

If that is the case, you are incorrect. Your test is your proof.

I’m in agreement with @douglas_schroeder ’s post and will add the following...

WiFi into your TV is (likely) the most impactful difference vs. your other "chains." What you’ve accomplished is isolation from a lot of "problem stuff" by doing so. It is an effective isolating ’barrier’ that most in these environs don’t get.

[NOTE: I’m not saying that ’wired’ Ethernet is superior or inferior]

Secondary to that is removing your computer, it’s ethernet connection to the switch, and not utilizing it’s USB output... AND a much shorter signal path for Tidal, including the removal of the multiple layers of peripherals and cabling in your chain.

Tertiary to that is the use of different digital inputs into your DAC (for each leg of your test). For one, you don’t have equivalency, and two, your DAC may have input dependant differences in performance (not to mention cable differences, etc.).


So, Im after a good streamer-transport to get AT LEAST the sound quality I have with my Netflix rig.

If I may, your goal should be "trouncing" the TV / Netflix chain, not equalling it. : )
florida71's avatar
florida71
22 posts
 
I’m with @hudo. How are you listening to tracks on Netflix? I’ve noticed that Tidal played through the web browser of my Samsung TV into a cheap Fiio DAC via optical cable into my secondary system sounds remarkably good. @plda
plga OP
184 posts
 
Hello guys,
My answers by topic:

1- I've been listening and improving my system for a considerably long time and when I refer to "better" sound, I don't mean coloured, but more accurate. By that I mean issues that I believe cannot be coloured or "invented" by any part of the system, they dont exist from the beginning, the source.

Let me explain better. As my system got better in accuracy (it is PRETTY revealing today), it evolved in aspects I'm sure cannot be done colouring or masking the sound, only improving the information the system is amplifing:

- Better tone: more real and analog sound, less edgy, LESS SIBILANCE. You know what I mean: LESS DIGITAL SOUND.

For instance: in the song  "Still falling for you” from Ellie Goulding from Bridget Jones’s baby Soundtrack, wich is at the end of the movie and its NOT an audiophile song, in the chorus "on Tidal" you can EASILY detect sibilance on the F and S letter of the words Ellie sings and, on Netflix, the sibilance is almost totally gone. Its so obvious, that I guess you dont need trained ears or a hi end system to hear it. 
Well, that sibilance makes the system sound "digital", affecting the tone and worsening the realism of the instruments and voices. That issue CANNOT be coloured, it is just poor quality digital processing.

- Less ground noise, cleaner soundstage, better separation and layering. 

- Deeper and wider soundstage. 

With the same song, and others, on some Netflix movies, my speakers TRULY disappear. I mean, the image with Tidal and the other sources is GREAT, but on Netflix its like Im inside de stage, its incredible.

I've been listening to my system for a long time and I've got used to how it images the sound, even with the best recordings on Tidal. For me, not even those recordings image as well as most songs on Netflix. I still cannot believe it!!   The sound on Netflix has an easiness and flows beautifully. Another issue that I believe cannot be done "colouring" or with an EQ.

- Dinamics and bass impact. I dont mean only stronger bass, but deeper, profund bass, with out changing anything else on the system. 

2- I stream Netflix with my Tv is a 65" LG 4k and it's connected to Internet with the same WiFi Router as my Notebook (wich streams Tidal), BUT the computer is connected to the Router via a Gigabit Cisco Switch and a couple of CAT9 Ethernet cables, NOT WiFi.

If I stream Tidal with the computer via WiFi the sound is worse than Ethernet with the Switch. It is easily detectable and AGAIN, its NOT something you can mask with EQ or colouring the sound. The computer (at least mine) works better with Ethernet, it sounds better. Not a huge change, but noticeable.

So the Tv, using a worse digital signal than the Computer, sounds better.

Just to mention, I've used some time Dirac Room Correction. I liked it first and it makes a BIG difference in sound, but then I found the sound with Dirac flat, lean and boring, so I stopped using it. The test I've made were WITH OUT Dirac.

3- The TV is connected to my DAC with a cheap 3m Toslink (optical) cable and my system (for movies and music) is stereo, not multichannel as my main goal is music.

@ elliottbnewcombjr Thank you for the advice. I will try it, but I dont know if the browser app on the Tv will be able to stream Tidal. We'll see.

@ classdstreamer The Jitterbug helped a LITTLE bit, maybe eliminating some harshness on the sound, but its so little that Im not 100% sure.

On the other hand, the W4S USB Reclocker (RUR) does indeed improved the sound. Its NOT a big change, but noticeable, mostly on dynamics, tone and realism of the music. I guess another USB conditioners must produce similar results, but for me even the whole USB chain (RUR + LPS + Gustard U16) is not enough to reach the sound quality I hear from Netflix.

By the way, the quality sound is MUCH worse if I connect the computer directly to the USB input of the DAC, avoiding the  RUR + LPS + Gustard U16 chain.

The only answer for me is that the computer is providing a truly awful USB signal that cannot, or is too difficult, to correct.

PS: for the guys that BITS ARE BITS, I can asure you that its not that simple. Time domain is critical in audio and if a piece of gear on the chain introduces jitter, noise, whatever, it will affect the sound BIG time.

Just to mention: I also like photography and I've had great pieces of gear, mostly expensive lenses, but I sold them all and kept only what I need. What I mean is that I don't buy or keep pieces of gear only for aesthetics reasons. I've had also tube gear (300B and EL34 integrateds), wich really looked BEATIFUL, but I sold them because they didnt sound as good what I have now. 

plga OP
184 posts
 
@david_ten Yes WiFi sounds worse "on my Computer" than Ethernet.  NOT by a big margin, but noticeable. 

I haven't tried Ethernet with the TV because I would have to run a long ethernet cable, wich I dont have, and the TV is hanged from the wall and I have to uninstall it, connect the cable and hang it back to the wall. Too much work and time. 

I guess the proof is on the computer, wich is easy and fast to make an A/B test (WiFi vs Ethernet).

Remember that we are talking about SMALL improvements (mostly less digital sound) and I dont know if you will easily detect them if you have long time between listening sessions (uninstalling the Tv will take me at least 30 minutes).
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