Calloway, well they must be extraordinary. I think that I would look into the Ypsilon Aelius monoblocks before I bought the Chalice monoblocks. The Aeliuss are "only" $34k. |
Argyro, the system you heard "Sunray's" you mentioned above.
What is the dimensions of the room + ceiling height.
How far away were you sitting.
How far are the speakers from the back wall, sides and between.
Reason I ask is that my designated room has set empty now for some time and I've been looking at potential set-ups. I have in another room MBL 101E's set-up that I love and will be keeping.
THX |
That is great Calloway! One of my friend a trust a lot says the Chalice is probably the best valve amp out there. Whatever best means,...
The first sound preamp, that I have heard in my system, has a lot of gain thats probably why you dont have a problem with driving your speakers!
Although I am using a Wavac right now, which claims to be 55W, I have a problem with bass as my preamp has minimum gain and also my source has only 0.6V output.
Happy Listening, I am sure it a great choice!
Mike |
..i have decided to buy the chalice audio 'talisman' amps i have been auditioning...what i hear with them is so amazing ...especially the mids and highs ...the soundstage and detail and depth of the sounstage is stunning..the music just floats in front of you....the image is perfect..surprisingly the bass is as good as the goldmund. i do have to turn the volume controls on my ' first sound ' preamp up 1-2 notches with every disc but am still in the 12:00 to 2:00 position at the most and most of the time still on the 8-10 position for most discs...if you go to their website ..chaliceaudio.com...they look ..exterior wise..exactly like the pictured 'grail' amps..they do not, however..have the full input chokes...never thought i would be a tube guy but this sound is to-die-for...even my wife noticed the significant improvement....the 25 watts ..easily drives the speakers.. |
Just wanted to give you lucky Tidal owners a heads-up, been enjoying this thread immensely. |
One correction Argyro. The system had the Sovereign Eternity monoblock amplifiers (4 of them) rather than the Sovereign Glory.... |
the 'chalice audio' SETs...grail and talisman are very unique..unfortunately they are not well known as with some start-up companies they have had financial issues in this economy. the 'grail' easily drives most speakers and the sonics are incredible...the review in 'positive feedback' by adam goldfine..who had them before the filament supplies were added..was great. he thought ..as have others that have heard them..that they are one of the best SETs...one of the dealers who has heard them who also carries the highend audio note amps thought they were as good or better then the best of the audio note amps...the 'talisman' model that i am auditioning does easily drive my tidals and the mids/highs are just incredible...i do have to adjust the volume a notch or 2 up from what i was used to with my goldmund but that is all on most discs...the mids/highs just float and are so liquid and the micro detail of sounds i couldn't hear before are amazing... |
Argyro, I wish I had been there. I have been eying the Sovereign Glory. |
Last night I had the chance of auditioning probably the best system in my life, it consisted of:
Tidal Sunray Speakers
Sovereign Glory monoblock amps
Tidal Presencio preamp
Orpheus Heritage DAC
Full flow master reference i/c and speaker cables
It left me breathless, I thought it was impossible to reach this level of performance in audio. I seriously doubt I will listen to sth better ever. It was that good!
By the way my piano cera indeed sounds like a small Sunray, it doesnt have that top and bottom end, as well as soundstage size but it is very very close it is spooky!
By the way I have a hard time driving my Piano Cera with 55W of the Wavac, that is to comment on the above posts.
Happy Listening,
Mike |
Calloway, since I am using a Sander Audio Magtech stereo amp that puts out 900 watts into 4 ohms and can say the Contrivas can also take much power. |
...in case you think tidal speakers are difficult to drive, a friend of mine brought over prototypes of his/their new SET amp. they..tom willman and pres edmunds own 'chalice audio' ...a small audio company that argualbly makes one of the best SET amps in the world...not my thoughts but those of all who have heard their 'Grail' monoblocks...they are a 50 watt full input choke design with a recently upgraded filament supply that has made them even better then their initial product...anyway..their smaller model....the 'talisman' i think..is a 25 watt model. pres brought them over sunday to see how they compared to my goldmund 29m with my contriva diacera-ses...to say that both of us were shocked would be an understatement..they easily drove the tidals' with no obvious bass loss and were much more transparent ..detailed..liquid and all the other words used to describe great sound...i can't imagine what the 'grail' would sound like...one of pres' customers has tidal T1 speakers and pairs them with the 'grails' and recently had them upgraded with the filament supplies and thinks they may be 'the best amp in the world'..his words ..not mine...you don't need alot of power to drive the contriva diacera-se...this is now very apparent and the music is so much more natural.. |
elviukai----
the room that i attended and refered to had the boulder amps preamp , emm's new cd player and the jm lab/ focal maestro speakers. it was on the 36 or 37th floor of the venetian, if my memory serves me correctly. |
Ozy, if my memory serves me well there was Stella EM on CES 2010 demo. |
Same thing Ciro71, JMLab used to be the initial name (JM, stand for founder Jacques Mahul), in those times Focal stood for a range of drivers they sold. Some way down the line the brand Focal was used for all products.
Alec, congrats and welcome to the inner circle!
Karel |
Sorry, but you speak of the focal scale? |
kw13--
the jm lab scalas were one of the best sounds of 2010 ces. paired with boulder amps and pre, they sounded glorious, only second, though to the tidal contrivas......at least to my ears.
either way, you can't go wrong with either one, budget permmittng ,of course. |
I received my contriva diacera today. Here comes another round of speaker burn-in unfortunately. |
Tbg,
Yes Focal Scala. Tweeters on these are to behold too. |
Bvdiman, I suspect you are right. Are they still about $30k? If so, the Piano DiaCeras are more expensive at $37,690 but certainly have a better top end. |
I think it was Focal Scala that Kw13 was comparing to. |
Kw13, I assume you mean the Klipsch Scalas. I had their corner horns in the late '60s, but my room left a hole in the center. I thought about the La Scalas, but they didn't have the bass. I loved the Klipsch speed and efficiency. I could use SETs on them. |
Luckyboy,
Yes I listened to Piano Diacera. If I had to decide today, I would rank my listening experience equally between Scala and Contriva Diacera with Piano Diacera as some way behind. I have heard Scala on 3 separate occasions. First was the best and absolutely awe inspiring. They were partnered with top Chord gears so some credit would have to be given to electronics. Second was awful - speakers not burnt in and I believe some mismatch with Accuphase electronics. Third was once again excellent but not as good as first, with BAT tube amps (same shop as second audition). My conclusion is, if I have the right amps I could live with Scala and would adore music from these speakers. I heard Contriva twice. First was truly memorable. They were as impressive as Scala but in different ways. They hit hard with thunderous bass laced with details so fine to create contrast and dynanmic at a level hard to believe. Best of all, vocal was surreal and spooky in the best possible way imaginable. Second audition was mediocre but still not shameful given their almost shameless price. Piano approached Contriva in some way and even that was almost magic but just didn't have the muscle and meat of Contriva and unconvincing in that way. So I am torn between Scala and Contriva and wished I had enough money for both. Lucky for me my budget caps off at around Scala so I should not have a difficult time deciding when I eventually have to decide. I will bring my own amps to Scala for final run before maybe pulling the trigger around bonus time (wife and family permitting as even that is a major financial undertaking). Taught me tho why there are diverging comments about same gears - because they can sound very different depending on circumstances. |
I should make it clear that I am not diminishing the Ypsilon electronics in saying that the Tidals with their electronics were one of the best sounding rooms. I bought my speakers largely on the basis of what they sounded like with the excellent Ypsilon amps. I can afford neither of these fine products but would love to have either. |
I was at RMAF on Friday and Saturday and thought that the Tidal room was one of the most musical rooms there. Many of the other exhibitors seemed to overpower their rooms or their speakers were, as one commentator has stated, "too aggressive" on the top end. Not the Tidals, they played music and I could have spent hours in that room. |
I agree with Fcrowder's assessment, having heard the system on Sunday, and found them uninvolving. Although I am a dealer, I do not sell competing products in the same price range. |
Fcrowder, I would have said that until Sunday as I would have said about Tidal at the last CES and RMAF. At this RMAF in MHO it was among the top three. |
I should perhaps preface my remarks by saying that I am not a Tidal speaker owner but was very impressed with the Sunrays at CES and with their smaller speakers driven in the past with Ypsilon electronics. Having said that, I was not particularly impressed with what I heard at RMAF this year. It certainly was not in the top five or so rooms that I heard. |
Well I got my first chance to hear the Tidals with Tidal electronics at the RMAF. On Sunday, the sound was extraordinarily good on the Piano Diaceras. These thrilling realism of the diamond tweeter was there and the bottom end was quite good.
By Sunday, this was one of the top three rooms at the RMAF. |
One week with the Piano Cera has passed. It is amazing how this speaker manages to pass the emotion of the music but sounding just RIGHT.
I will be honest with you, after 10 years I had kind of lost hope on all speakers out there. They all had distinctive sounds that when spotted I was ready for my next upgrade. I was ready to drop out from the hobby until i heard the Tidal line for the first time 3 years ago.
I still remember a tear in my eye from the first tune "Soldier of Fortune" from Whitesnake, a live from Japan. From that moment there was no way back for me.
Since then I listened to all Tidal line in several occasions and systems. At first you cannot understand what is really going on but after some minutes you are shocked from the spot on tonality, phase, resolution! The crossover points are just untraceable living just the music!
This is my last speaker for many years to come, thats for sure.
A big thanks to TIDAL for bringing back music in my life. The indeed build emotions!
Happy listening everyone and thanks for the big support!
Mike |
Glad to hear you have the Piano Cera Argyro. It is great your setup sounds outstanding from the outset. My Piano classic sounded good when I first got it, but not draw dropping good like you would expect from an expensive speaker line. I thought getting a great speaker would hide the other sins. I Addressed other areas in my system, and now I am in awe every time I listen. I still get sense of excitement to fire the system up every single time. |
A trusted friend with Contrivas told me his experiences when he went to the StillPoints Component Stands. I did the comparison between the Ultimate feet and the Component Stand. |
Tbg, if you have never installed the factory original feet, how would you then know that the StillPoints are superior? |
I have removed the StillPoints Component stands from my Contrivas and replace them with four new StillPoints Ultimate feet in stainless steel. There was a major improvement in the soundstage and bass. I have never installed the stands that came with the Contrivas.
These StillPoints Ultimate SSs are amazing but I only have 12 with 8 going under the Contrivas and three under my Oppo 83 moded by Exemplar. |
My Tidal Piano Cera finally arrived! I am still in awe from the sound quality, stay tuned for listening impressions! Super clean and accurate, super fast and musical at the same time!
Mike |
Kw13,
Just want to confirm that you listened to the Piano Dicera. Also, if you have to get a pair today, which ones would you get, the Scala or the Piano? Speaking of Scala, did you compare them to Revel Salon2?
Thanks, |
Bvdiman,
Perhaps you're right which would make speakers very sensitive to positioning. Music was still very good but not memorable. First audition tho was and lingers.
Went back to listen to Piano this time. Finally had arrived. Burned in with I believe over 400hrs. Hooked up with an assortment of gears: pass lab massive monoblocks, top moon pre amp and escoteric cdp with digital out into a 1500usd dac. Sound was anything but memorable. Held back. Not engaging. Lots of low and high details but one dimensional. Was packing up my cds after an hour or so. Then dealer suggested I listened via his server (macbook + DAC via usb). System came alive. Piano managed to do something similar but not quite what contriva had done on hi res tracks. We then burned Dr Hook and streamed it. But it did not approach what I heard on contriva with esoteric. Leaves me to conclude either get contriva or something else. Likely go back for final audition between scala and piano (dealer believes he needs to optimize as he agreed a few thngs were not right about the sound) as I would dread to spend 60k on speakers to make contriva regardless of performance a real option. Visually piano a stunner. Preferred them to contriva easily. Looks probably better than my cremona m. Exudes authority and class. A bit taller and wider than cremona m. |
Kw13 re your second audition,
06-27-10:
"Went back for second audition. This time Contriva not as impressive. The stand out vacal in first audition a few weeks ago was gone. Still very enjoyable but not much more special than any other high end pair. Dealer said he had optimized speaker position. More suited to classical music."
Just a thought - Seems to me here that the dealer might have moved the speakers a tad too far apart in hoping to achieve more 'grandness' (to capture better/larger orchestral presentation/scale). However, at the cost of sacrificing some center image fill, hence, loosing that sense of vocal immediacy and illuminated palpability you experienced during your first. |
Ι will check but I think I have the latest version.... |
Geopolitis, I think Pure Vinyl includes Pure Music, but you might need to check how current your PM is. There have been many upgrades in the last several months. Going from 1.46 to 1.6 was a major improvement. |
Tbg,
I am using the Pure Vinyl not the Pure music but I assume that it has the same music engine.
Argyro is of the guys, the others don't write in Audiogon... |
Geopolitis, I should say that I discovered that my Syn. Res. Universal Cells were not charged. I realized that this morning and connected them. This made a very large improvement of both the sound using Amarra and Pure Music, but changed my preferences not at all. |
Geopolitis, who are they? I know two who totally agree with me for whatever that is worth. What version of PM are you working with? PM 1.60 was a big jump in quality as was Memory playback and HOG. |
no worries my friend. Better keep the one you like....
It would be easier to check which of the two programs is closer to a top vinyl system if you have one around.
Bear in mind that the conclusions about Pure Vinyl are not just mine. There are at least 3 people with top systems that have the same opinion... Including people using Tidal speakers.... |
Geopolitis, sorry that is not my experience. I do hear the difference with my SR and Exemplar cables and with my H-Cat, Weiss Minerva, and Weiss Dac202, but that only proves the superiority of Pure Music. I will soon have my Exemplar/Oppo 83 back and will see which it is closer to the PM or Amarra. |
In my opinion that trick of lowering the midbass region by few db in order to give the impression that there is more resolution and more details in the rest of the audible spectrum is totally unacceptable. I have seen the same trick used on and on by cable or DAC manufacturers and it pisses me off.
In order to understand where is the real difference between the Amarra and Pure Music try a comparison between your DAC and a Benchmark. You will hear exactly the same effect. Same with cables (I have personally compared my Argento Flow with a Stealth Indra RCA interconnect and heard exactly the same).
Except the midbass gap, there is also a phase shift in some upper frequencies that gives you the effect of the deeper soundstage. But then, was this depth really what the mastering engineer had in his mind or is it created by the software using those phase shift tricks? |
Geopolitis, I installed Amarra 2 and listened to two cds. I don't know whether it plays from the hard drive or from memory or ram. It is louder than Pure Music and has more pronounced bass. It doesn't have the top end of Pure Music and thus lacks the ambience retrieval and sense of sound stage.
I will listen more this evening and then do some fast as I can comparisons, but right now I prefer Pure Music as it has greater realism of the recording event. |
Geopolitis, I will try Amarra again, but it was no contest when last I compared the two when it was Pure Music 1.40 not the new 1.63. |
Tbg,
having extensive experience with computer based audio, I strongly suggest you should prefer Amarra instead of the Pure Music. I believe that Pure Music tonality is wrong. My Weiss Medea/Vesta setup is quite neutral and similar to yours so I believe you will easily hear the difference when you are listening to piano (Pure music sound is thinner than it should be)... I also saw some serious improvement when I used a firewire cable made by the professional division of Oyaide. Check AsiaWeiss for more info... |
Calloway, there are a multitude of reasons why what I am hearing with my Tidals now that I didn't hear earlier. One is that I forgot how outstanding these speakers are. Two, my Weiss Dac202 is now fully broken in. Three, the Sanders Magtech amp is now fully broken in and its 900 watts per channel into 4 ohms gives it great authority (this is what I am sure you were implying). Four, Pure Music 1.61 played in Memory and HOG mode far surpasses PM 1.40 as used last June. Five, although the Contrivas had no signal for three months, their lacquer may have hardened. Six, a combination of all of the above.
At any rate the top end is etherial and sweet. The ambience of the recording venue, whether open air or in a studio, are quite evident. The dynamics are startling. And the precision of placement within the sound stage is strikingly vivid. |
i think you will see a big difference..let us know.. |
