It's the second day with Contriva Diacera SE, they are full of surprise!!
They are very sensitive to positioning, I make a bigger toe-in, around 15 degree today, sound image becomes much better. And I take one inch apart to each end, WOW, I couldn't believe the transformation!!! Only one inch, sound stage is way much wider and brighter.
My friend who has Marten Design Coltrane, thought they would sound similar since both use Accuton units, after he heard Contriva, he told me "no, it is completely different" Contriva is very full in mid-range, the density is close to ATC kind of level. Coltrane is in different school of sounding, clean and airy, I will go to his house to hear them again by myself.
To me, I always miss the mid-range of ATC, but they are difficult to deal with in some aspects. But the mid-range of ATC melt me in if the recording quality is right. Contriva bring me the level of mid-range density again, with more balanced way. ATC is more like studio monitor type of speaker, direct and accurate, but make me fatigue to digest for long hours.
I still don't know how Tidal achieve this, I got all information from the music, very detailed, but the music just flow out nicely, even in high volume, I can still feel calm and comfortable, I can talk to someone without shouting. Not like my all previous speakers. So far, this is the most respectable achievement to me on Tidal/ Contriva.
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You should wait the burn in period until the sound of your speaker settles down, cause it is going to change quite a bit and then do the tweaking you are thinking about!
IMHO |
Quanmer, yes, you need M8s to go into the Contrivas and 1/4" 20s for the Ultras. StillPoints has them. There are many threaded holes on the bottom of the Contrivas. I used those closest to the corners of the speakers. I don't know whether it makes any difference, but it gives the widest stance for greatest stability. Of course, you need to take the Tidal provided stand off. There is a centered threader hole in the back of the speakers so you could save some money putting three Ultras under each speaker. I was told, however, that four sounds better. I have tried this under my amp. Four do sound better than three. I have a real clue as to why-greater isolation I guess.
I don't know whether StillPoints has representation in Taiwan. |
Tbg and Calloway, I tried different combination, shorting wires don't stay, but port plugs does make my bass tighter, I keep them in. Maybe after I put Stillpoints SS feet, I will try them again.
Tbg, do I have to order optional threaded adapters for Contriva? |
Calloway, both the shorting wires and the port plugs are to deal with some rooms. I tried both but have a large room so YMMV, but by all means try removing them. |
quanmer...i can second the improvement the stillpoints ultra ss make..i,too, tried them after seeing tbg's review in 'stereotimes' and love what they do..there is much better detail and transient response.bass seems to be better also. |
tbg..i have had my 'shorting plugs' and the 'port plugs' in from the outset...what difference do you notice without them ...?..i will have to go home and try it without and see.i can't believe the sound could get better but i will see..thanks for the info..dave...'calloway' |
You can check out my StereoTimes review and see a picture of them under the Contrivas.
They are pricy. I know of several dealers, but don't know about any discounts. You would need eight of them. |
Tbg, thanks for advises. can you elaborate more about how Stiipoint SS improve sound of SE? And where I can buy them at reasonable price?
My SE is a demo pair, AAudio told me it has 300 hrs already, all I have to do is set-in. |
Bvdiman, paying 65% of MRSP for Stradivari seems like a good deal & to get back 60% of purchase price is pretty decent. I do agreed Sunray at 69k pre owned seems like a good buy . It certainly indicate that the original price is way too high. Wondering why some manufacturer price their products so high , give dealer 50-60% margin , only to have dealers discount it by 20-30% to sell their products . Wouldn't it make better sense to start at a lower MRSP? Wouldn't that attract more buyers? I was recommended Tidal Diacera SE at MRSP of abt USD69 which is what Wilson Maxx3 . Without opportunity to compare I would certainly go for Wilson Maxx 3 for the simple reason it's easier to dispose a well known brand and at a higher price as well. |
Re: Sunray, I think of it as a great buying opportunity for some! If living in the States, I would have already grabbed them at those silly good prices offered. Not so much gold with my Stradivari as well in the past, when rrp was 40'ish, I bought new--discounted for 26k, and not so much later upon re-selling (locally) only got 17k for them. Not to mention the loses I suffered from my later two Magicos (bought new as well). So I guess buying used quality products from Agon is the way to go when opportunity as these arises. Its pretty much similar and applicable for most other brands. Also, I think the more massive/heavy the speakers are, the more they tend to be discounted--more shipping, logistics issues involved--as have already been mentioned.
What surprises me more though is that there's still no takers within the area despite the Ads going on for quite sometime now.
Quanmer, Congrats on your Contriva purchase! Please keep updating your newfound experiences, and post the system in virtual listing if possible.
Cheers! |
Quanmer,
Take the plugs out of the ports in back and don't use the shorting plugs, especially don't use them between the binding posts. There are unmarked plugins on the back of the speaker for them, but don't use them. I don't expect you are talking about the speaker stands.
I have installed StillPoints Ultra Stainless Steel feet under my Contrivas with enormous improvement. Toe in for me is about 15ºs. Unless you bought a used pair, breakin is about 300 hours. |
2 hours already, my Contriva Diacera SE has been set up and tried several toe-in angles.
First impression, it is in total different class from my original W/P 8, much taller, bigger soundstage, diamond tweeter bring more vivid / intimate music flow out from speakers. Can hear more detail, but not in Hifi;ish mode. Very coherent, definitely no fatigue at all especially using Ayre KX-R and MX-R.
Anyone knows where to download user manual or has copy to share with m?, I don't know what those accessories for? |
Audioblazer: my error, mistakenly read 35-40 as the discount, not the price. John |
Jdoris, tidal sun ray discounted 60-65% not 35-40%. is it common for big speakers to be discounted for more than 50% if its a couple of months old ?not too sure. Wilson maxx 2still selling for more than 50% retail price . Wilson maxx 3 even better resell value. Focal , Sonus faber Stradivari , Verity audio , enggleston , avalon , pretty gold 2nd hand value. |
Audioblazer: No dog in the Tidal fight, but my experience is that speakers, esp. expensive and large models with shipping issues, are routinely discounted more than 35-40%. Not unusual to find well-regarded speakers, esp. the bigguns, reselling at minus 50% or more. So I'd say the ads are consistent with claims that Tidals are in fact "the best in the world"! John |
In waiting to hear contrivas, yesterday I heard the focal teacher
Vitus SS101 with my amp ....... great speakers
any parameter, and I must say that the synergy was perfect focal vitus.
Now I am even more curious to hear the tidal contrivas.
Have you ever done a comparison of the focal contrivas and master??
Hello everyone. |
Tidal is certainly creating waves with positive reviews & it is certainly highly recommended. However they are 2 pairs of Tidal Sunray selling for 35-40% retail price . Wonder why the low resell price for a virtually new pairs of speaker |
Congrats Quanmer, please share you impressions!
As for me, every time I go home from work, even after 6 months of owning the speaker, I feel like I am listening to it for the first time!!!
Happy Listening guys,
Mike |
Congratulations I look forward to your consideration.
Enjoy it.
Hello |
Ayre KX-R + MX-R already here, Tidal is on the way, arrive airport tomorrow. Hopefully will come in on Thursday............ |
With six Quanmer friendly.
Waiting for your news then. |
Ciro71, I bought Tidal blindly, I did not hear them at all, no distributor for Tidal. But I did hear Marten, similar in design, ceramic drivers,
Q3 is vert good, too. But I don't like the look,
If you like the speaker can reproduce great details, many can do that, also your electronics, cable and wires all related.
I will update when mine Tidal arrived. |
Quanmer Thanks for your reply.
What you found is the difference between q3 contrivas??
Why did you choose the contrivas?
I look for a speaker that should be clear in the details ... and I think
Tidal magic that is to be among the best in this parameter.
Hello.
PS Your English is ok ......... mine is ugly. |
Ciro71, I was in a very similar situation few days ago, considering a replacement to my current W/P 8.
Magico Q3, Wilson Sasha, Vandy 7, Consensus Conspiracy, and certainly Tidal Contriva Ceracia SE.
I have only auditioned Magico and Sasha in my area, the others are still not available in Taiwan yet. After reading this thread, I took a bold move to buy SE blindly.
It's on the way to my place, I will update my experience when they sit in my living room with Ayre KX-R and MX-R combo. Probably in 2 to 3 weeks.
Forgive my English... |
If you check the Tidal Audio website you will find distributors in Greece, Italy, Russia, Switzerland, Sweden, Portugal.... |
Where could I find some Tidal in europe??
Thanks. |
Ciro71, I have never been tempted by any Wilson and only one Magico, the V3. Nothing has ever bitten me like the Contrivas on Ypsilon amps. Will something better come along? Who knows; I had concluded that all speakers are compromises and your only choice was which ones you tolerate and for how long. I went from compression drivers to Klipshorns to Infinity Servostats to KLM model 9, to compression drivers in Altecs to Avantgarde Duos to Trios to Beauhorns, to Accapella to Tidals. i think I missed several others in this journey.
There are several Tidals for sale now as demos or used. Buy one! |
First of all thanks for the reply, then I wish you sincere congratulations
for your wonderful facility.
I would be very curious to compare the magic contrivas q3.
I now use wilson watt 5 pappy, my only fear about
tidal, and waste a lot of dynamics. |
Ciro71,
Since you posted here, you should have already very well guessed what the unanimous recommendation would be? ;)
Anyway, in a room your size, I'd imagine that the Contriva would be a perfect fit. My room is similar in size, about 60m2 (approx.5m x 12m), and it gets filled-up pretty nice and easy.
Amongst your list of speakers, it really boils down to your set of preference--tastes and biases, but in the transparency dept. (yes, esp.mid to high), I would rank the Tidal CD to be at/near the top of that list.
And as to synergy with Vitus gears, hearsay that that's another winning combination as well. Maybe our friend Maxx1973 can chime in more on that.
Goodluck |
Sorry if I ask this question here.
Since the counter (the one with tw diamond) and in my list
I'm thinking of buying speakers, along with other
speakers, magic q3, sasha wilson, focal teacher, Vandersteen 7.
Seeking a speaker that has the strong point of transparency on average
high ..... what do you recommend, it is very difficult to listen to them all.
My listening room is about 50 square ...... my amp is a vitus audio
SS101, preamp vitus sl 101.
Thank you all. |
Karelfd, there is a US importer now, and given that these units are in stock, I expect to be able to hear them in not too long. The European reviews are certainly strong, but I have heard nothing about the amps other than hearsay. Bang for buck seems to be great, but I will soon hear. |
Tbg, I have B.M.C. on the radar (I have been interested in their CDP/DAC) but have not found the opportunity to hear their products yet. Pricewise, they look almost too good to be true, IF they can deliver what they promise. May take some time, but I'll revert to this. Meanwhile, here's the catalogue B.M.C. |
Hi, guys, There is a new product line being imported to the US-B.M.C. I have read translated reviews of the dac, cd player, and photo. They also have amplifiers, which is my main interest. Have any of you in Europe heard these products? And if so, where would you rank them? |
Maxx1973, me too. Only once in my life at a show did I hear a speaker that awed me. It was the Contriva Discera SEs with Ypsilon electronics. Got the speaker, next the electronics |
Tbg,
Indeed saw that as well. I only can say that I'm extremely happy with my Sunray and don't have even the slightest intentions of selling them :).
An amazing speaker, both its looks as well as the sound. Everyone that listened to mine fully agree. I don't look at other speakers anymore, I'm done! It's a nice feeling not having the constant urge looking for something better. Having the Sunray made me relax :). Only upgrade currently considering is acoustic treatment in my room. |
I just noticed that Ozy is selling his Tidal T1s for personal reasons. |
Linkster,
I agree with you regarding the important of the quality of power supply in a system that is so analytical. I am planning to add a balanced power conditioner soon... |
Congrats George! After a year of ownership the Piano Cera still amazes me. I recently added APS's PurePower 1050 regenerator and didn't realize this level of performance was possible. It's been a while but they now sound better to me than my recollection of the Contriva Diacera SE within its performance limits in my small listening room. |
Finally, I ordered my own Tidal Piano Cera speakers...
I am planning to drive them with the Sovereign Director/Glory using my Weiss Medea as a source. Will probably upgrade to a Stylos Sys USB Dac soon... Cables will be the Argento Flow... |
I am toed in at exactly 15ºs which intersects the center line just behind me. I noticed that the Sunrays at CES were also at about 15ºs.
It is the realism of the sound stage that strikes me as enhanced with the "right" toe in.
There are at least one pair of Sunrays and one pair of Contriva Diacera SEs for sale, which surprises me. |
Mike, I have not really tried to toe in much more than where my speakers are now (Contrivas are HEAVY to manoeuvre with). Where they are now is where the soundstage feels correct in width as well as depth for all sorts of different recordings from solitary poet with a guitar to jazz combo in a cellar or Yes's full menagerie of instruments, and from a Fazioli to full assault philharmonics. That indeed was the main difference with less or no toe-in. Also, my speakers still have non ceramic woofers and the correct toe-in is where the "crease" (grossly exaggerated term used only to get the idea across) between materials disappeared. Importantly, as you guys already pointed out, there is also the saturation of the sound that unmistakably falls in place. |
Hi Mike, mine are toed-in less, around 20 degrees. But I sit quite far, around 4.80m away, so the intersecting just behind head sounds about right in many cases. The speakers sit 2.35m apart (measured from center of drivers), 0.95m from side walls and 1.95m from rear wall (to back of speakers). I focus first in getting the best tonal density and mid bass definition, the soundstaging part then fall into place nicely with them totally disappearing.
Re the perpendicular 'location' as mentioned in the manual, my understanding is that it's meant to suggest best for both speakers to sit at equal distances (perpendicular line) to back wall rather than the perpendicularity (toe-in) of the speaker's cabinet 'position' itself. |
Hi Karel!
What were the differences you are noticing the more you toe in? To me the tonalty of the sound changes as well as the soundstage.
In my case the speaker is around 80cm from the side walls that is why right now I prefer to toe them in a lot, with the speakers crossing just behind me. I would say around 35 degrees of toe in.
When I have them perpendicular to the back wall i get a more expansive soundstage but the side wall interferes more.
the sound is also more dense with the toe-in I use!
happy listening,
Mike |
Hi Mike, I found my Contrivas (2nd gen) to sound best in what I would consider a medium damped room with a slight toe-in, so as to intersect just behind my head. distance from rear wall is 1.70m (with a sloping ceiling though) and 1.20m from side walls. |
How much toe-in do you guys have? Tidal suggests in the manual that the optimum position is perpendicular to the back wall! Where do you think it sounds it's best? I am still experimenting with this, any comments would be greatly appreciated!
Happy Listening,
Mike |
Stew nordost cables or any other "wrong" sounding component is not a good match with Tidals, experienced this as well with nordost!
Enjoy!
Mike |
Kclone, the RS meter's A and C setting "The weighting switch allows for switching between the standard 'A' and 'C' weightings. Choosing the 'C' weighting will make the meter respond uniformly over the frequency range from 32 - 10,000 Hz, and the 'A' weighting will make the meter more sensitive to frequencies in the range 500-10,000 Hz."
I did try both but found little difference. I would think C is the widest and is the normal listening range. |
Still early days for my piano cera. I have noticed incredible detail at low listening levels as well. This was before checking this thread and seeing that it was a current topic. I also currently have a full arsenal of synergistic on trial. I am going to give them some time to settle in before I really make any call. Still not sure on the mass of cables and plugs....we'll see. The Valhalla were definitely not a match and are now with new owners. I am going to try the stage 3 Magnus prime cables as well. I would also like to try siltech but auditioning these looks to be challenging. Cheers and happy New Year! |
TBG, shouldn't you have the sound meter in the A position instead of C? I had mine on C and that is the reason some recordings were sounding quit at the same decibel levels as perceived louder recordings. I switched to A and it turns out I can turn the quiet ones up some and still be in the safe zone. |
