"They did not even care to really listen much to the speakers or equipment, just wanted "the best" they had, something as good (or better) than their neighbor had."
Well, honestly I think just about any salesperson likes customers like this. I know I did years ago working for essentially minimum wage + commissions selling gear at Tech Hifi, Lafayette Radio, and Radio Shack. The most expensive gear offered at any of these still offered value for most. However, there were some clunkers even at the top of the lines that I would always try to steer people away from. Those big top of the line Radio Shack/Realistic Mach horn loaded speakers ($400/pair list I recall) are the ones that come to mind that many might remember. BIC turntables (crappy sound poor build quality and always breaking) were another. |
"Many vendors were focusing on the $25-32k range"
Can a show targeting consumers in Newport Beach/Orange COunty California possibly be regarded as indicative of the world in general? No doubt this show would be targeting the high concentration of ultra rich in that area accordingly.
Obviously, any viable product in that price range should perform exceptionally. Personal taste becomes the main discriminating factor. Also room size. You need bigger more expensive speakers and amps to listen loud and lifelike in larger rooms, but for most, a smaller less expensive system can do exceptionally well, in many cases as good or better than larger or more expensive gear.
OF course, if one is continually looking to do better, the tendency will be to spend more over time I suspect. But I often wonder if a compare between what one has after years and many more $$$S on the constant upgrade path could be made with what they had a few years back, how much better would the latest and greatest really be?
What I find works for me is to listen to as much live music and the best reference systems as I can. Then do what is needed to my gear to attempt to match. Once I get to the point where what I hear at home does not leave me wanting further, based on the reference sounds I have heard, I mostly stop or certainly slow down and think a lot before changing anything. |
ALso, when I upgrade, I try to do it one reasonably small step at a time. That provides a better chance of getting it right and retaining value without overspending.
Once you dump megabucks into that one silver bullet upgrade, cost being no object, it is hard to go back, finances permitting.
From fast food, to health care, colleges, movies, to "Real Housewives" to high end audio, I suppose bigger, better, more is often the American way. Its a big reason why we are where we are these days. Too much of the wrong kinds of progress that often benefits few and might actually harm many. Hopefully we have learned something and are largely past this at this point with the homes we live in. Why not audio as well?
Is this heresy to express on a high end audio site? I hope not. "High End" can be a relative and not absolute thing I hope. |
"If you like them and are happy to pay $25k for a pair of "entry level" monitors, great"
Well, they are no doubt expensive and well built, but not sure I'd consider them "entry level" just because they are relatively small, if not light. They do what they do (not everything) pretty well and monitors including these are a good size for many urban dwellers with limited space.
I wonder, at the Newport show, were there any vendors with lower cost gear running any demos comparing their stuff to the bigger boys? That would make things a lot more interesting to me. |
"There has long been a market for very expensive equipment new, by the standards of the day, and this equipment passes down to lesser mortals as the flavor of the month makes those pieces 'obsolete.'
If true, and it well may be, then this essentially says that this expensive gear is overpriced and will not maintain value. USed prices probably support that. Nothing unusual though. Few items, luxury or otherwise, including cars, retain value. I guess if you can truly afford these things, you do not care much about depreciation. Must be nice!
But what about those who stretch and really cannot afford these things? Different story and perhaps more likely not a happy ending? |
THe Athom's are $4000/pair?
Interesting they are French made by a guy formerly with Triangle. They reminded me of my Triangle Titus XS speakers at first glance. Except almost 10X the price of those ~ 15 years later? |
"My beef with the hifi scene is the utter lack of any interest in engaging the general public"
HiFi scene: "buy expensive turntables and tube amps. THey sound the best."
General public: "Where do I plug in my ear buds?" |
"Anyone over 50 years of age can not tell the difference between $10K and $100K of speaker. It is a fact of aging."
Not exactly. Ability to hear high frequencies diminishes with age usually the case with those over 50 like myself, but most can still hear very well the frequencies where 90%+ of the music occurs plus ears become trained over years of listening to be able to pick up subtle differences better.
I am 53 and can hear relatively well up to 12 or 13 Khz. When I was 18, I could hear to 20khz. I have actually measured this using the same reference source material over the years so I can speak pretty certainly about this. "air" is one aspect of sound affected by not hearing those frequencies well. Also detail to some extent.
The fact that people so not all hear the same is a big reason why there is always such a variety of quality gear to chose from at all price points and why few chose the same things.
In my case I am able to hear clear differences with most changes I make to my rig, some subtle like with ICs, power conditioning, some more significant like amps, pre-amps, DACs, certainly speakers, etc. |
"I know, I'll just get me a 20 something year old girlfriend. No, that won't work either. My 50+ year old plumbing would probably prevent me from enjoying that,too."
OR the other way around....(insert smiley face).
Viagra would be the right tweak maybe.... |
FWIW, I'd be willing to bet that if someone did a study, there would be a strong correlation between age groups and the kinds of systems that they think sound best or worst. Less so for the ones they think just sound good. |
Hope to attend the upcoming Capital Audiofest in July and hear some new things. Looks like a good lineup worth checking out. I was at the inaugural 2 years ago and that was good. Plus it seems to grow each year. |
"u must be an alien from another planet. I have worked extensively with the House Hearing Institute. They have performed more detailed hearing tests on more human beings than any group in the world. No males over 50 have ever heard over 10.5 KHz. No one. Over 94% cannot hear over 8.2 kHz. "
Well, I am not from another planet, but I am not familiar with the stats so can't say. My test may not have been perfect and I last did it a couple years back. Can you provide a reference to the research?
Even in the case of 8.2K, you still would hear most of the music produced by most any common instrument according to charts I have seen indicating such things, including a significant portion of the treble/upper midrange. The ability to hear "air" would be diminished even further I suppose.
I would agree that this hobby is snakeoil ridden, but I can also state positively without personal doubt that I am able to hear differences with many subtle tweaks including ICs and power.
I also agree that hearing up to 20khz, as I have measured when young, can be a mixed blessing. A lot of noise occurs there and not a lot of music. That could work to ones detriment in terms of musical enjoyment. I know I enjoy the sound of music more than ever as I get older.
Wouldn't be interesting if audio critics and reviewers had their hearing ability quantitatively certified and published before publishing their opinions? What about also if the general public could similarly if desired? That might help match up like-eared listeners and critics. The landscape of high end audio would probably look a lot different, probably for the better. |
Audio Frequency ChartAlso provides linked info on ideal human ear sensitivity at the various frequencies. |
"Notice how the sensitivity decreases around 1kHz which just happens to be the upper end of the female voice? I think this chart is based on data from married men :)" "what a piece of work is man..." Natural Selection at it's finest. |
"The MBL room playing an open reel at 15ips. This was by far the best room for me as well as the friend that accompanied me. Unbelievable resolution, wonderful clean lively sound, top to bottom. We first visited the room in the morning and Hugh Masekela was playing Stimela from the album Hope. This amazingly clean, well-produced and mastered material really demonstrated the wonderfulness of the MBL 101s."
Yes, similar mbl RTR master tape demo at United Home Audio shop near DC is still probably the best and biggest home audio sound I have heard in recent years. Standard phono and CD demos on same rig was still stellar but not to the same level of overall perfection. |
Quad-man,
Welcome to the new world order.
I suppose as more and more Chinese become wealthy and inflation kicks in there accordingly, the next less developed economy out there will come in to pick up the slack when it comes to low paying jobs that help keep cost of goods low.
It just seems like a natural cycle to me. Just like baseball stars price themselves out of the market and then young guys just getting started with similar skills pick up the slack. |
ITs funny (or not) how the AMerican way is to encourage more and more buying as a means of keeping the economy going.
What's needed is more and more learning combined with high standards so more people can actually earn more as opposed to just spending and buying more.
Its kinda scary. Thank god there is a global economy at least to help keep the ship overall afloat! |
