I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
jafant, Do you have your Thiel CS 2.4 SEs playing music? Or do you sit in front of them with album / CD in hand pretending that you are listening and smile? Smile?
Amps, CABLES, CD players, TTs; you keep asking for recommendations regarding all this equipment. You have kept this thread going, but do not indicate whether you have a working system. Are you just a dealer nightmare? Or are you actually going to buy some gear and listen to Music? Do you plague dealers with audition after audition and then try to find the gear on the web to get Value? No wonder brick & mortar Salons are going under.
It's the Holidays! Make a decision! BUY some gear! Listen to some Music. Support a dealer that has given you auditions. Buy some gear from someone on this site so they can have a great Holiday.too!
What does your system comprise of? TT, CDP, pre-amp, amp, ICs, speaker cables? Come on; Clue us in already! Just like unsound; what IS your budget?
My room is a living space; 16w x 12d x 12-14h. A tubed pre-amp could be an option? Medium to high volume for certain music/recordings. Balanced/unbalanced does not matter so long as I dig the gear. I listen to Jazz, Rock, Pop and Classical, all to appropriate scale.
Jafant, as for recommendations, well it's just so personal. I've given you considerations from Thiel 2.4's perspective. Your room and the desired volume potential, as well as what you might have proceeding the amplification should be considered. I'm not sure if your dead set on an integrated or if not, have specific preamp considerations in mind such as ss, tubes, balanced single ended, impedance, sensitivity, etc. The recommendations I try to provide should help one avoid technical pitfalls, and narrow down the selection list to a manageable size. After that it still comes down to personal preference. If your more specific I can offer you gear I'd consider based on those parameters and if you like; stuff I like within those parameters.
^right time frame, wrong specifics. Brain fart. Considering my history of clumsiness, I suspect everyone here's future is quite promising! Best to all, and a very happy Thanksgiving!
... Nelson Pass worked at Phase Linear before co-starting Threshold ...
Are you sure? What products did Pass design for Phase Linear? I always thought Phase Linear was Bob Carver's effort, until he sold the company to Pioneer.
oblgny, jafant, well not exactly. Nelson Pass worked at Phase Linear before co-starting Threshold where he developed amongst other things the acclaimed Stasis and optical bias designs which he sold with the company when the economy had a downturn, though not before licensing the Stasis design (though not application!!!) to Nakamichi. After departing Threshold Nelson Pass started Pass Labs. Some individuals that previously worked at Threshold started Coda. Coda also made gear for Legacy, Sanders Sound and others. Wayne Coburn who was with Threshold as Nelson Pass was leaving Threshold went onto Pass Labs where he is credited with much of the Pass Labs preamps designs. Though not really as much part of the Nelson Pass continuity, Mikael Bladilaius was part of the post NelsonPass Threshold team (including Wayne Coburn) that developed the T series and later Forte' gear, went onto Classe' amongst others.
Jafant, I would recommend an amp capable of a minimum of 300 Watts into 3 Ohms, and I would personally prefer double or more than that. The combination of a sub 3 Ohm minimum impedance and challenging phase angle is likely to make most tube amps less than comfortable. Thiel recommends at least 100 Watts per channel for the 2.4's. Bear in mind that recommendation is based upon quality ss amplification that can double down, and in this case almost double down again! If the amp can't double down as such then you'll need to increase the power output of the 8 Ohms rating accordingly. There is an old audiophile rule of thumb that I have found to be excellent guidance: buy at least twice the minimum power recommended. With speakers like your Thiels if using tubes double that again, and then again. As for your apparent preference for an integrated over separates, there are some things that you might want to consider. While it's true that the case work and especially the face plates are amongst the most expensive parts of amps, so minimizing those costs would appear to value laden. And there is something to be said for shorter signal paths and the elimination of an extra set of interconnects that integrateds provide. On the other hand, I think you'll find that most intergrateds due to reduced size and corresponding heat sink real estate will have to run cooler than their separates counterparts. Very often that is accomplished by reducing the amount of Class A bias and the advantages that can come with that over the now increased Class AB output. Furthermore, you've probably noticed that many manufacturers top of the line pre's come with separate power supplies so as not to contaminate the delicate low level signals that pres work with. If these manufactures find the relatively small power supplies of pre-amps an offense, imagine what kind of insult power amplifiers might induce?
ex-Pass Labs guys do run and operate Coda. Is there a dealer/retailer near you? I am planning a trip to NYC in 2017 and would be grateful for Audio shops around the 5 boroughs and associated NJ.
I would like an opportunity to demo the Pass Labs , Conrad Johnson and B.A.T. integrated amps for openers. AudioNet, Accuphase and Audio Note also makes the list. Especially interested in SR, Jorma, EnKlein, Elrod and Kubala Sousna cabling.
My only and foundational gear at this juncture is the Thiel CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. The electronics will be built around my speakers. A simple 2-channel , yet, Reference system is all that I need.
Not sure about needing a subwoofer at this time? Happy Listening!
Back to you. We know you're seeking to finalize your system around the Thiels "by 2017" but I don't think you've mentioned your current associated gear - and what is being replaced. I know you're considering Pass for amplification, but what else?
very insightful advice regarding wether or not to use an eq. Also, solid state vs tubes and the veiling of your own "sound", in your own listening space. We all have to try to figure out the factors that work.
All listening spaces are different, all of our hearing / taste is different as well. Keep striving for the absolute sound- this is my personal quest.
unsound- as helpful advice from you, our audiophile friend. Hope you are gearing up for Thanksgiving. What a wonderful time of year to enjoy your system!
good to see everyone sharing info and experiences regarding their fave Thiel loudspeaker models.
oblgny- Thanks! for the updates. Yes, your business does have a fast run as we round out 2016. Wine and Spirits are very popular this time of Season. I would certainly keep those eq- maybe another fan can use them.
richardp01, I some how feel somewhat responsible for causing you some level of neurosis over the eq. Every room is different, and as Jafant has wisely noted, we all hear differently. Keep the eq in case you move. In the mean time, as I'm not in the habit of arguing with success, if it's working for you sans eq: enjoy!
oblgny, Sell the mistakenly purchased eq. The 3.5's eqs are just plain better. It'll end up just collecting dust. I've got a bunch of assorted boxes doing just that. Someone else might actually need it.
I have been reading the strong opinions about the 3.5 equalizer that I eliminated from my system by using a subwoofer so I tried it back in my system again. I get the same result as before. The midrange is a bit more veiled and the instruments, voices and over all image appear slightly larger, When I go back to my arrangement with the Velodyne sub and no equalizer the midrange seems cleaner and the bass is tighter.
I would conjecture that the slightly larger image that the equalizer produces in my system is due to a lack of overall focus. I can't be sure if this would apply to all 3.5 systems because: a. I am dealing with room responses that I can't really alter; but others could; b. I have a 100-watt tube amp that may be bloating the boosted bass load from the equalizer that a larger, solid state amp could better handle; c. the tighter bass due to the massive solid state amplifier and active feedback in the Velodyne system may be doing less smearing and enlarging of the midrange image or maybe not; and d. the midrange driver is no longer getting carry over of the boosted bass through it's first order, 400-hz crossover.
The Stereophile review of the CS3.5 has a graph of the equalizer response that indicates it only affects the frequencies below 300 hz so I question the notion that it is somehow improving the midrange response and image. In my situation i think it is an extra link in the signal chain that adds an extra layer of veil to the sound. So much to know, so little time.
Yes, I rushed in and bought the eq thinking it was the 3.5 eq - my error. I'm going to keep it anyway.
I've been too caught up in business this week to contact Thiel. (I'm in the wine/spirits biz and the next six weeks are NUTS). I will do so tomorrow in the morning.
I've read as much on the 3.6 m's as I have on my 3.5's and my curiousity regarding the 3.6's will bear fruit only by becoming geographically desirable. (I started out with 2's). Heck, I drove to Massachusetts to pick up my first pair of 3.5's. Finding a pair of 3.6 wouldn't make me trade off nor sell my 3.5's, either. Hell, no.
jafant often mention's a system's synergy in describing his experiences, and for myself, for now and the foreseeable future, Pass and Thiel are the best I've had. Cables and perhaps preamps may still find changes depending upon circumstances, but Thiel and Pass are my reference points. They're locked.
oblgny, I would caution you on assuming that the later Thiel 3.6's are better than the earlier 3.5's. Many would agree with that, but I don't. I much prefer the earlier 3.5's, much like I prefer the earlier 5i's to the later models.
oblgny, Let me guess; you bought an eq for Thiel 3's instead of 3.5's? The 3.5's eq was a nice upgrade over the 3's eq. I have admit, considering how the eq works, the bi-wireable binding posts on the 3's would appear to be a good option with eq. On the other hand, Audiogon member Lrsky, who used to work at Thiel around that time has claimed that the eq works beyond the bass spectrum, which would negate that consideration. While I don't doubt the sincerity of his assertion, I haven't seen anything that would confirm it. Have you reached out to Pass Labs or Thiel yet?
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