The original CS2.4, as best as I can tell, had 13uF + 1uF and 27uF + 1uF in the tweeter feed I have not seen the xover in person myself (though hopefully soon), but does anyone know which one is in series and which is in shunt? The caps in series make a lot more difference in sound quality. It may not be worth it to upgrade the one in shunt since the improvement is minimal. |
After much research and consideration, Tom Thiel has settled on Clarity CSAs for the upgrade.I think the decision probably comes down to cost/performance ratio. If you were to do the upgrading yourself, I would highly recommend something like Mundorf Supreme or some of Jantzen high end caps. He even has a custom low voltage version to replace the electrolytics. My guess is the electrolytics caps are in the shunt signal path so it may not be critical. Also, they tend to be of very high value (like 50uf or 100uf higher). So it may be expensive to replace them with poly cap. For example, a 100uf Clarity CSA cap is about $100 dollars. |
The (still growing) improvements ain't small to say the least!! Lots more air More precise pinpoint More fluent Less grainy (it wasn't but .....) More micro detail without any added sharpness Impossible to locate the loudspeakers if you close your eyes Knowing me, in the end I will probably upgrade the whole crossover, but the big one will be for sure the capacitors I just did!! More pictures, https://holco.picturepush.com/album/1171389/p-Thiel-CS-2.4.html |
After much research and consideration, Tom Thiel has settled on Clarity CSAs for the upgrade. He even has a custom low voltage version to replace the electrolytics. I am going to also try Multicap RTX bypasses (1%) on the coax board. Progress on my 2.4s has been slower than envisioned last spring but I hope to have one channel done by the end of the month. The passive radiator is hardier than it looks, but not easy to get the proper angle for removal. Pretty snug in there. |
Thanks for the pictures and upgrade info. I am seriously planning to do the upgrade, but if I screw up removing the passive radiator, it's a one way street. I would advise if you would go to the trouble doing the upgrade, I would recommend using at least Mundorf Supreme or Jantzen high end caps. It's very interesting to me that most high end speakers, even those that cost 20K or more, the xover components are not very high end. Good caps and resistors really make a difference. |
Yes, please share a description of sonic improvement. Nice work, though. And thanks for the pic. I suggest replacing the resistors, too. I upgraded my sandcast OEMs to Mills MRA 12s. A nice sonic improvement at low cost ($100). My resistors showed signs of overheating, so it’s possible my old ones were damaged more so than the Mills being better? Yours appear clean. Still, a cost effective upgrade. With Tom Thiel’s tutelage, I will soon be completely rebuilding my boards, even replacing the coils. Everything will be new from the binding posts to the XO output wire (other than I will recycle the Mills resistors). I will post my progress and impressions on the Thiel owners thread. |
Did the upgrade with Jantzen Alumen Z-Caps and Superior Z-Caps, the 2.4 plays at a whole other level now :) https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16063416/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/20181101-213423.jpg |
The original CS2.4, as best as I can tell, had 13uF + 1uF and 27uF + 1uF in the tweeter feed. In the SE version, the by-passes are replaced by single 14uF and 28uF caps as seen here: http://www.hifishock.org/gallery/speakers/thiel/cs2-4se-2-thiel/ I am unable to find these values in single caps from Clarity or Mundorf, altho' you can achieve the same capacitance with, for example, a 12 and 2uF cap. Rob Gillum at Coherent Source Service has SE upgrade kits so that you can transform you CS2.4's performance. Presumably these include the full-value caps seen in the linked pic. He also has the SE outriggers with SS spikes. Please support Coherent Source Service! I have a pair of SE version, so already with the Clarity SA caps. I might upgrade those to a newer version (eg, Clarity CSA) but will probably upgrade the caps in the woofer feed first. From the schematic supplied by Rob Gillum, it appears there is a 33uF cap in the direct feed. Again, I can't find that exact value in a single cap so will have to get there using a combination. Rob Gillum wrote me that the CS2.4's bottom panel is glued on. Access to the crossovers is via the passive radiator. I am leery of removing these for fear of difficulty in reattaching them but Rob wrote that you can grasp the radiator by its surround while re-screwing. I will report back as I upgrade my Thiels (won't be anytime soon). |
You should inspect the board to be sure. The configuration is likely 14uf in parallel with 1uf(=15uf) and 28uf in parallel with 1uf(=29uf). If this is the case, then you could (1) replace the 14uf and 28uf values and leave the stock 1uf polystryrene caps in place, or (2) replace both the high values and the paralleled 1uf caps with 15uf and 29uf. It is advisable to look carefully at the circuit before ordering anything. |
Dear Jafant, Thanks for the lead. Dear dgarretson, Pls pardon my ignorent. May i summarise your points. I just need to buy two ClarityCaps SA of value 14uf and 28uf each to replace the existing two caps w value 1uf. ( May i know the sequence?) Alternatively, i buy 2 units CSA/250 or CMR/400v of value 14uf and 28uf to replace the existing two caps w value 1uf. Pls help to confirm on whether my interpretation is correct. Tq |
@desmond888 Thanks Jafant. I believe the only difference between the 2.4 and 2.4SE model was the use of ClarityCap SA capacitors. I don't have a schematic, but during that time Thiel was purchasing 14uf and 28uf values. They may have been bypassing these with 1uf polystyrene caps. You should be able to confirm this by inspecting the crossover. Since then we have surpassed SA by two generations-- ESA and now CSA. For that application I suggest CSA/250V or, space permitting, our top CMR/400V model. Dave ClarityCap OEM Sales |
