The Streamer-Dac-Preamp Chain


I'm building a second system, and I'd love your thoughts. My starting point is Roon / digital library / Qobuz.  My ending point is a Moon 761 power amplifier which then goes on to speakers. I need to insert a streamer, a DAC, and a preamp between the starting point and the ending point. Now, I know I can get a Moon 791 for around 15K, which looks and sounds lovely with the Moon 761.

Question: can you suggest a streamer, a DAC, and a preamp (for the same approx total) that spans this particular chain (e.g., no phono needed) and does better than the Moon 791?

[I do have an Auralic Vega G2.1 left over from my first system which connects all the dots above. But I don't like its preamp stage --- I've already replaced the volume control module. And the Moon 791 easily outperforms it. However, if you want to incorporate its DAC into your suggestions, I am happy to listen...]

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That ends my question, but you might be interested in hearing what ChatGPT had to say. Pretty confident character, our Chat :-)

This is a great problem. Here’s a stack that should significantly outperform the Moon 791 in terms of DAC resolution, preamp transparency, and streamer flexibility:

1. Streamer: Auralic Aries G2.2 (~$5,500)

• Tesla G3 processor is far superior to the Moon 791’s built-in MiND 2 module.

• Femto clocks + isolated dual processors mean exceptionally low jitter.

• USB, AES/EBU, and I²S outputs (versatile for DAC pairing).

• Dedicated power supply for streaming means cleaner signal delivery.

2. DAC: Holo Audio May KTE (~$5,500)

• R2R discrete ladder DAC (no delta-sigma conversion, ultra-natural sound). 

• Fully balanced dual-mono design.

• Separate power supplies for analog/digital stages.

• One of the most analog-like DACs available. Unlike ESS-based DACs (like in Moon 791), the Holo May avoids digital glare.

3. Preamp: Benchmark LA4 (~$3,000)

• Absolutely neutral, ultra-transparent preamp.  The Moon 791 preamp section is good but not at LA4’s level.

• No capacitors in the signal path, no coloration.

• Near-zero distortion and noise floor.

 

 

 

debrajray

Showing 6 responses by yyzsantabarbara

Yes, on the Benchmark LA4. I am listening to the CODA #16 (similar to the Moon 761) with the Benchmark HPA4, and I love it. I also have a Holo Audio Serene preamp in another system which is like the LA4/HPA4 but adds a tiny bit of warmth.

I have a super complicated and high powered ROON setup (running on a cheap $500 Dell PC in another room under a bed). I have 3 Sonore Optical Rendu’s for fibre optical streaming. I have compared this to the Lumin X1 streamer (using fibre optical) and the PlayBack Designs STREM-IF (SPDIF) and the OpticalRendu did well. The 3 different streamers sounded different, and I had all 3 in the house at the same time.

DAC’s to flavor the sound. Especially with the LA4 and 761 amp which will not color the sound.

BTW - if you want to save some money try the Schitt Wotan amp for $2k. I have the CODA #16 and Schitt Wotan that flow between my 2 systems.

BTW2 - Give me a million dollars for audio and I still get the LA4 or HPA4.

 

@debrajray If you are not into the LA4 for aesthetic reasons consider the Holo Audio Serene preamp. It should be good with the Holo DAC you are looking at. The Serene is compared to the HPA4 in this review. The reviewer liked the Serene more.
Review Holo Audio Serene Level 1 preamplifier - Tastefully Serene - Alpha Audio

I am considering trading my Serene for a LA4. 

The Serene and LA4 I think are better than the 791 which I heard with the 761 and Paradigm Persona 9H speakers (not an ideal pairing). I think my preamp and DAC are better for a fraction of the price. The 761 amp is amazing and one I would like to get used in a few years when people start upgrading again. 

 

The fibre used in the OpticalRendu cleans up any noise in your internal network. Whatever is connected to the Ethernet and into the RJ45 connection will likely inject noise into the network. That noise will potentially travel into your DAC. The UltraRendu does not help in this scenario, the OpticalRendu is the way to go. 

A fibre optical "moat" just before your DAC is ideal. Now the Lumin X1 is great at this because it has a fibre Optic connection in the DAC/Streamer. However, the DAC part is not as good as my Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC (my opinion).

The OpticalRendu is not theoretically perfect like the X1 because there is a conversion from fibre to USB and then into the DAC. However, the bits into the OpticalRendu should be clean since it traveled through the glass fibre optical cable. Glass cannot carry analog noise, thus a "moat".

This is how I am able to use a noisy $500 Dell PC to run my ROON Core. I have no keyboard, monitor, or mouse hooked up to the PC and it resides under a bed in the guest room. I RDP into the machine in the event I need to reboot or whatever. This hardly ever happens. The PC starts automatically up at 7AM and shutdown at 2:30AM.

I sometimes run processor intensive ROON convolution filters (for headphones). The digital balance (for speakers). Everything worked perfectly on this low-cost PC. I also use the copper wires in my house walls to move the bits from room to room. The OpticalRendu's are at the endpoints where I have audio systems. 

So easy, so powerful, and sounds perfect.

@debrajray I use an older version of this network switch to convert Ethernet to fibre optical In my office I have 2 DAC and 2 OpticalRendu’s connect to this switch. Hook up your Ethernet to this switch and the connect the fibre SFP to the OpticalRendu.
Amazon.com: Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 8, 8-Port Managed PoE+ Gigabit Switch with SFP, 150W (ES-8-150W),White : Electronics

What is a SFP?
SystemOptique Certified – Small Green Computer

Optical Networking – Small Green Computer (see SFP and cables here)

You can get cheaper but these match and work with OpticalRendu, which they also sell.

I have 3 of the fibre supporting network switches. The one linked above (older version) and the other 2 cost $79 and $49. They all sound the same to me.

 

@debrajray Interesting that you could not hear any improvement with the fibre. In my tests with direct Ethernet into a DAC via RJ45 or a USB into the DAC from a computer were not performing at the same level as fibre. There was less clarity on top and other grunge. The computer use case was the worst if you were using a noisy computer like I have in my current setup (but with fibre).

I also use my RAAL SR1a headphones and those are like a surgical device with respect to letting you hear everything. A dirty source was dirty sound out on those phones.

I sold an excellent preamp last week, the Holo Audio Serene and now have only 2 preamps left. The Benchmark HPA4 (same as the LA4) and the Schitt Mjolnir v3. The Schitt is good and the HPA4 is incredible.

I put the HPA4 where the Serene used to be (in my best system) and I feel like I got a cleaner sound. Just love this preamp.

@debrajray The new Schitt Kara preamp with the Forkbeard can control the volume on the preamp using an iPhone. This is not the digital volume of ROON but analog volume of the preamp. ROON does not need to be involved.

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

My Mjolnir v3 preamp does not support this. My Schitt Wotan amp has Forkbeard integration, and it is very useful for me. The amp does not have volume control but even then, I use the remote-control feature via my iPhone all the time.

I owned a KRELL Duo 300i integrated amp and it was ROON READY with the ability to change the volume via the ROON client. The volume on the integrated amp actually changed. This was great.

I find analog volume much better than digital volume. The Lumin X1 DAC with the digital Leedh implementation was the closest to the level of the LA4. It suffered a bit at low volume, though it was an issue of linear progression of the loudness and not the sound quality as with most digital volume.