The most fun you can have in audio is DIYing your own speakers

@chumsusi - 

So ask Lee Taylor to make you a pair of cabinets. :) 



Best,

Erik 

Here is my DIY ode, the SNR-1. 

High end? $500 tweeters. 

https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2017/12/snr-1-two-way-high-end-diy-monitor.html

Cost to make, including custom cabinets: ~ $3k

gndrbob - I'm afraid I don't know much about full-range single driver speakers, you are better off asking in the DIY audio's full-range forum.

Best,

E

@johnk -

I don’t see where we are off except in one thing: I’m talking about the cost for the _drivers_ alone (woofer + tweeter, etc) vs. final retail pricing for the entire _speaker_ (drivers, cabinet, crossover).

Your math goes down the same places I went and then stopped at speaker manufacturing. If you went a little further you would get to where I went to.

Best,

E

Troels is a very experienced and accomplished kit designer, far more than I am, however I often catch myself smiling at some of his comments and choices matching so well with mine. If I had a soul-brother in terms of speaker design I'm sure it would be him. 

@dgarretson Yes, it would, since the top end MA line measures spectacularly in both the time and frequency domains. 

@dgarretson - Yeah, it is financially very difficult for most vendors to justify spending good money on crossover parts. 

One of the worst offenders is Focal, which only uses Solen's cheapest caps. So much better even with cheap Mundorf MKPs

I should point out, I don’t wish to attack speaker manufacturers, at all. I just want to interest others in this hobby and help make audiophiles more informed consumers.

I have nothing against speaker makers making money by selling high quality products at fair prices, and 10x the driver cost is about that. 

I don't think speaker makers are "profiteering." I think it's a very difficult business you have to love to be in. But I am comfortable saying that high end speakers have to sell for around 10x the driver costs to be worth making.

10:1 is the minimum I see for using top quality drivers from OEM makers. That is based on retail cost of drivers. My numbers hold up based on analysis I’ve done from a few brands that I know the drivers for. But let’s take this through how retail works instead.

The ratio can be MUCH higher when the drivers are made in house (Monitor, Focal), or the drivers are bought in bulk or speakers are sold direct.

There are a number of reasons. First of course is that if you buy retail you are at least 3-4 layers away from the driver manufacturer.

1. Speaker maker
2. Distributor
3. Retail store owner

The retail markup is 40%. The speaker / electronics maker doesn’t sell speakers for the cost of manufacture, that’s a zero gain situation. They have to build crossovers, pay for those parts, have cabinets made, etc. All this adds up.

So, a $10k speaker pair in the store sold by the manufacturer for $6k. That is $3k/speaker. Figure they want to make 2:1, they must build for no more than$1,500 a pair. That includes cabinets, crossovers, assembly, testing, not to mention normal business overhead.

So, $750 to put a single speaker out the door. Assume 2/3rds of that is drivers, with the rest going to everything else discussed above. We are at $500/speaker in drivers, and there is not a lot of room for decent crossover parts.

This is why, for the same budget, a DIYer can assemble a speaker with much higher value parts than you can from the retail store. However, this is no guarantee at all that it will sound good. If you need validation from the retail marketplace that your speakers are high-end you’ll never get it.

That’s fine, I’m sitting here listening to $3k speakers I’ve not heard the better of in a very long time. :)

Best,

E

eigendr : 

Glad you are happy with them. :) 

Not sure why you are calling them expensive though, you have spent a fraction of the cost of what they would cost in a store. With the usual 10:1 driver markup, those would be $15k speakers.  You spent around $3k including cabinets. 

Best,

E

Hey @pc ,

While I agree that DIY speakers can be huge cost savers, those conversations usually devolve into "but your speakers will never be as good as brand XYZ ... " 

What I will state unequivocally is that it is fun as hell. Whether you build better than a particular store brand or not. Every audiophile should do this at least once in their hobby lifetime.  You don't have to build "the best" or even expensive to have fun and feel like the journey was worthwhile.

Best,

E

BTW, Audiogon is great for many, but if you are going to DIY stuff, I strongly suggest DIYAudio.com or the Parts Express forums are better. They let you post pictures which makes communication a lot easier, plus lots of die-hard DIY'ers there to help you. 

Since I have no access to woodworking, when I get serious I ask Lee Taylor of TaylorSpeakers.com to build cabinets for me. I ship the drivers to him for exact fitting, and I do all the speaker analysis, design and crossover construction. 

Riley, 

It really depends on the kit. Some kits are just paper plans. Others are fully built cases, and you have to drill pilot holes for screws and attach the crossover to the speakers. 

Some sources you can google for:

Madisound Speaker Store
Selah Audio
Solen.ca
Great Plains Audio
Meniscus Audio
Parts Express 

Best,


E