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The Jadis JA200Mk2 review---or slam!

In the current issue of Stereophile, Jason Victor Serinus reviews the new Jadis JA200Mk2....or should I say SLAMS the amp!!

Since I am new to the Jadis family, I thought I would bring up a few interesting thoughts on this review. The first is that I am totally understanding why an amp that uses Ten(10) KT150’s per side would probably not be a great solution at all!!!! Why, well JVS brought up the reason...although he did minimize the impact; the amount of heat this beast gives off is crazy! Space heater in disguise. What’s odd is how JVS also points to his Pass amps as giving off a ton of heat. ?? Anyhow, we then learn that the review was conducted using JVS DAC as the source...and direct into the amps....who does this??? Why on earth would anyone use a DAC to drive a large tube mono block for a magazine review!! No preamp was used. All of the photos of the amp show it using the KT120 tubes...all. There is mention of what the amp was designed with...the KT150’s, but there is some questions to what tubes were actually in the amp under review. Then to go on, the amp was apparently strapped for the 1ohm load....????? JVS doesn’t check these things!...and then states that the amp is not really that great in the bass reproduction. Huh, why would he think that a tube amp that is strapped to the 1ohm setting would produce prodigious bass with his hard to drive Wilson Alexia’s!!! Can we say classical "mismatch" here.
JA’s follow up measurements, while interesting as usual, are IMO also a little odd, what is the base line that he is using to determine accuracy??? Another tube amp...a ss amp, a hybrid design of some sort...his ears, someone else’s ears???

While I purposely did not consider the new Jadis JA 200Mk2 amp for my system, due to the immense heat output...and probable impact on reliability due to this factor ( IME, electronics seem to have a much longer life if heat is not that much of a factor!!! ( Am i one of the few that perhaps understands this??) Plus, i don’t need any space heaters in S.Calif.) I would think that a follow-up review ( preferably by a more experienced reviewer) would be in order....one who can correctly match-up this amp to their ancillary gear.
Anyone else have an opinion of the Jadis JA200Mk2 review in the current issue of Stereophile?
128x128daveyf

Showing 11 responses by daveyf

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
Indeed, I am very happy with the midrange reproduction from my new Jadis amps. However, the lows and highs are equally as impressive on my system, the amps are tremendously ‘resolving ‘. More so in fact than any other amp I have had in my system. My amps are strapped at the 4-8 ohm strapping and the KT150’s are easily able to drive my speakers. I had no concerns about the amps ability to drive my speakers, and unlike JVS, my speakers are a much easier load. (Although not one that any flea powered amp could be happy with). JVS doesn’t seem to understand that the “marriage” between gear is paramount in the result that one will get...probably due to his lack of experience. Imho.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
Onhwy61, just one problem...is it not the reviewer’s job to try and make sure that the gear under review does NOT have a compatibility issue with his existing gear?...and if so, report on that fact!

If JVS speaker’s were not ideal as far as a match with the Jadis amps, and as you say the speakers could note easily be replaced, would it not make more sense for another reviewer to take on the task? A reviewer with more experience and with more compatible gear. Failing that, a disclosure that the amps were not at their best due to the speaker/amp mismatch.....just a few of my thoughts.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
soundsrealaudio, I would suspect that the new Jadis amps would work very well with the Vivid's. IMO, the sweet spot of the Jadis line is the amp that I now enjoy...the JA30Mk2; not sure if this would have enough grunt to drive the larger Vivid's...like the G2's or above, but if it did, I would bet it would be a killer combo.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
bdp24, I think you have an excellent point there. Although I suspect that most readers would know that Altec Valencia's have a very specific sound....which may or may not appeal to everyone. 

Onhwy61, I did not see anywhere in the article a reference to the fact that JVS was listening to the amp with KT150's and also with the 1ohm setting....1 ohm setting yes...but with what tubes?? The photos of the amp only show it with KT120's???
JVS does state at the end of the review..." neither Thomas J.Norton's measurements of the amplifier's predecessor ( what this has to do with the current amp's measurements and specs is questionable, IMO) nor Jean-Christophe Calmettes himself suggested that that might be the case" ( In reference to JVS Alexia's being bass shy). However, this presumes that Calmettes himself was aware of JVS feelings regarding the bass shyness. ( which he possibly did not,as he apparently does not have the best understanding of English!) If he did, I cannot imagine why he would not be concerned about the very low impedance drop issue. 
BTW, my speakers are Sonus Faber GH's....an excellent match with the new Jadis JA30Mk2. 

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
I seriously doubt, knowing the Jadis amps, that the DAC that JVS was using will have enough output to really drive the amp...while this may work with other amps...like a Zesto BIA. I think a great deal of what JVS heard can be attributed to a mismatch between the JA200mk2’s and his ancillary gear. Plus, it would not be my first option to set the amps up at their 1 ohm setting.
Relating that the amps were lacking in the bass and upper frequencies would certainly lead me to believe that something was very wrong with the set up. Of course, we are assuming that the amps were being used with the KT150’s, which is not entirely clear.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
rcprince, since I am very happy with my new JA30Mk2’s, I have no intention of selling them....and as such I couldn’t care less whether the review impacts Jadis values or not. However, I do think that the JA200Mk2 review was very poorly done and shows the inexperience of the reviewer. IMHO, an amp should be able to do it all...and not leave some aspect of music production on the table. ( Yes, i know this is a very lofty goal, but any gear that is able to produce a wide range of sounds...from the deepest lows to the highest highs, should be looked upon as superior to any piece of gear that is limited to just one area of the audio spectrum---even if that area is the most important midrange and superbly reproduced!)
Setting the amp back to the 4-8 ohm strapping is not hard to do on the Jadis amps, and I do feel that the reviewer fell down here. It clearly states in the owner’s manual how to do this. Whether the amp was set up at the factory in this manner, I have no idea ( if so, that was a huge mistake IMO), but I believe the new amps are shipped with the standard 4-8ohm setting in place.

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
Soundsrealaudio, I like the CAT Preamp....it’s a superb match with my Jadis amps. 
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
Trelja,while I agree with most of your points..particularly the interesting point about the cost in the past and our perception of that vs. today; I think you are showing us that you have not actually heard any of the latest Jadis amps. The new KT150 based versions are far more neutral sounding than any of the amps that came before from Jadis. So, while the latest models may not be as warm as in the past, they are certainly different sounding than even from a few years back.

Another thing, when JVS states:" the double basses that give the urgency and dread to the symphony’s opening were hardly audible through the JA200 mk2’s" I don’t think this is at all positive...and his conclusion....
"But those who put a premium on brilliant highs and resounding bass may prefer to admire the sounds of the Jadis amps for a hot date or two, without committing to a long-term relationship"...would be at best a ’back-handed’ compliment and easily conceived as a slam. All IMHO.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
trelja, as you may know, you cannot roll in the KT120's and particularly the KT150's into the older designs, without potentially doing damage to the transformers. Only the new Mk2 models have been modified by Jadis to accept the KT150's. 

daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
Kyomi_audio, you make some excellent points. Although I think we have seen Lamm single ended amps (read low powered) drive Wilson speakers like the Alexandria’s quite well..that is not so for the far less efficient Alexia’s.
Nonetheless, I think the real issues are coming from the fact that JVS utilized a DAC as the front end driver....why on earth you would do that escapes me??
Unfortunately, J Calmettes was apparently at the meeting and apparently did not object to this strange pairing. I have no clue why he wouldn’t have had an issue with this, and at least have suggested (strongly suggested) a preamp...like the Jadis that you are utilizing,or another brand. (Again, like you said..CAT).
One of the reasons that I knew the JA30 mk2’s would have no trouble driving my medium efficient SF GH’s, is the fact that they utilize an amazing transformer...plus I have the ability to correctly match the impedance to the speaker load. However, under no circumstance would I consider running the amps from my DAC into the GH’s..even if it were the latest MSB select 2 DAC....which the Dcs certainly isn’t.

Good to hear that you are getting great results with the MBL’s...an unlikely pairing that I wouldn’t have expected would be synergistic.


daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,835 posts
 
George, you should remember that ALL speakers react differently regarding the impedance interaction with the driving amp. Therefore, unless you had the exact same pair of speakers that JVS was using, your results with a different speaker are going to be wildly different.
While you may NOT have heard any significant difference with the speakers you were utilizing for this test, that cannot be said for what JVS heard with his set up!
I would highly recommend that one of the reps for Jadis ( or you?? ) request a follow up from Stereophile; this time allowing them to do the set up in regards to the strapping and other items. ( hopefully someone over there would have the experience required to mandate a preamp in the front end!! ---or perhaps the Jadis rep or you can!).
All IMHO.
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