Nelson Pass in particular should be ashamed of his contribution to this
art form with thousands of music lovers trapped in his web of delusional
sonic bliss. "Oh the humanity!" That's not a statement I'd ever utter or support. Nelson Pass' contributions and success as an engineer and manufacturer stand on their own. But stating any amp brand is "nirvana" kind of goes against the grain of being an audiophile, doesn't it? I mean aren't we quibblers by nature? Isn't it in our blood to discuss the relative and specific merits? Erik |
Does anyone have experience with Wilsons and either of these amps??
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Thanks so much for posting that, @mikey8811
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So, Audiogon removed the posts where I called those calling me a troll trolls. I’m not sure what the standard is.
I stand by the removed posts. This was a perfectly good thread until posters started criticizing me.
I challenge anyone to see where I’ve encouraged others to post anti-pass posts here or anywhere else. In fact my standard has been consistent: Please make specific comments others can relate to, regardless of whether you ended up with a pass or not.
If you get all bent out of shape because I like to talk about relative differences in amps with specifics, the problem is with you, not me.
If you believe the Pass brand and sales are so delicate a few discussions that aren't 1000% pro Pass will affect them, you clearly don't believe very much in the strength of the brand. Same for Ayre. If anything, there's' been 1 recent post where a specific comparison was made and the user preferred Pass to Ayre.
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I’ve started 2 threads about Pass.
I’ve solicited details, and pretty much only discouraged posts which lacked specifics of gear and encouraged relative discussions. "I listened to brand x and I ended up with Pass because ..."
Plenty of all pro-Pass threads, which don’t really reach beyond that demo. Or threads asking "What’s the best Pass integrated?" or "I have a Paxx X53, should I get the X60???"
The Pass / Ayre divide is in this sense extremely useful since neither amp attempts absolute technical perfection buyers who have compared the two may have the most to discuss.
In the mean time several interesting people have jumped in at any opportunity to claim intentions which are simply not in evidence in the thread.
But please, call me a troll and fail to participate.
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1- I truly dislike IPAs to the point I won’t touch the stuff. Give me any variety of other beers please. Which is why it is the perfect analog for this discussion, especially since you are wrong. (I'm joking!!) |
depending on what design you’re focused on, Pass doesn’t just make some of what he does transparent, he makes all of it so. So many of his circuits are totally laid bare for people to read/analyze/copy/modify. His support of DIY makes the high end audio world a better place. @cal3713 All very true! |
I think specs and measurements are for the most part stuck in the 1970s when it comes to amplifiers and electronics, despite better tools. Yes, we can measure THD 100x better and cheaper. But have we added any meaningful measurements? Anything new that helps describe a listener, room, speaker, amp interaction with a particular amp?
A lot of what I think I'm circling around is bemoaning that we don't have better.
While some speaker makers have gone to great lengths to connect measurements to listener preference, if amp makers are doing this, for the most part I haven't heard of them. Pass, to his credit, makes some of what he's trying to do transparent.
It would be nice to me if I could go from my preferred amps to specs and go "aha! This is what I like!" and therefore, buy the cheapest that fits. :D :D :D
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Sorry, @tomic601 -
Not sure i understood your point. Do you mean that, compared to actual moving parts, the distortion of both of these amplifiers is so small to be insignificant??
If not, please correct my misunderstanding.
Best,
E
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well in general, the question what kind of distortion are you attracted
to is certainly valid and reaches into the realm of the psycho acoustic,
a rich vein as yet not fully mined. Exactly!! Lets mine!! |
Of course, Halcro is gone, but Pass and Ayre both are apparent financial successes.
Why?
If we discuss that, we are discussing the very heart of what it is to be an audiophile.
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@three_easy_pieces
You are not wrong, but what I meant was that these two amps have given up on the measurably ideal, straight wire with gain.
Much more so than other solid state amps, not to mention, they are pretty expensive.
So, the relatively high distortion, and high price makes them interesting to pit against each other as we try to figure out what it is that makes an audiophile.
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mrdecibel - You may pay for my answer with meaningful contributions and not selling cables.
When you have done so, I'll bother.
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Weird how my own preferences cause so many people to act so butt hurt. Actually, gentlemen, if I am allowed to use the term, my question is more about WHY.
Both Pass and Ayre are two amps which eschew technical perfection.
Both Ayre and Pass stand in contrast to say, the Halcro amplifiers, which were famous for their absolute dominance in technical terms. Ayre and Pass however have ended with different followers.
Compared to an ideal SS amp, both Pass and Ayre are absolute failures, with different followings. Aren't you curious why?
I am.
So yes, I am asking the same question in different ways. No, I don't intend to prove a brand is better than another, that's for the buyer. I don't care. I truly do not. I do care more about why. What kind of imperfections are we drawn to?
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