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...is there $70,000 more car in the porsche then in the kia?..probably not. Maybe, maybe not. But I can look at a Porsche and a Kia next to each other and easily see huge cost differences. On the other hand, while one can (sometimes) see cost differences with wire, for me it is hard to understand the huge differences in cost. And there certainly doesn't seem there would be the overhead in cable as in other aspects of audio and warranty work would seem to be lower and easier. As for percentages of mark up, some of these cables must be far above the 100% - 200% range listed above. |
I can understand that Calloway, I guess my question all along is, are cables marked up FAR more than the rest of audio or legit reasons for the costs. The concensus is that they are marked up far more. |
I pay extra for high test gasoline, which some people say makes a lot less sense than expensive cables, but I have no intent to change. Using a "high test" gasoline, higher octane, can actually be bad for a car if it doesn't call for an octane that high. The octane ratings correlates to when the gas detonates, so an octane too high can cause wrong detonation. The mistake is made when one uses this gasoline because they think they are using better gasoline. (If anyone wants to correct my crude response, feel free, I am no automotive expert.) Man, I just took the thread off topic. Is it determed by most then that cables simply are marked up much more than other audio componants or is there actually something to the cost? Brian |
The sad impression I have is that cables work and expensive ones in general work better. The question is not whether they make a difference or not but rather why do they cost as they do. What makes the more expensive ones, more expensive? There are companies importing cheap Chinese cables and sticking there own labels on them. What makes the Chinese versions "cheap" in comparison? (Labor cost is obvious, but is there anything else?) |
That's how I thought it to be also RW, but as I say, I am no automotive expert.
JayDee, great to see your name appear, I haven't seen a post from you in a LONG time. (Good chance I just haven't seen your posts.) |
John, I certainly don't disagree with what you are saying; as I stated in the original post, I think cable costs are staggering. I only recall one person in this thread making a case for the possibility of cables costing a lot. |
Quite frankly, I started this thread because it appears to me that the purchase price of cables are just plain rediculous, but wanted an open discussion if anyone could enlighten me/us differently.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with companies making a profit. But the profit margin on cables would appear to me to FAR exceed that of the rest of the audio industry.
I lay my cards on the table and say that cables make a difference to me from my experience. So with that said, I understand when people say, "if one hears a substantial improvement, the price is worth it to them". It seems to me that cable companies are gouging us for this in comparison to the rest of the industry.
Brian |
Well said Brian. Now you seem to grasp the situation. I wouldn't say that I have now gotten a grasp of this situation, I already felt this way; I was open to being shown I am wrong. Brian |
No, it does not surprise me John.
The only "problem" I have with your scenario about R&D costs is that it is the same for the rest of the industry.
Brian |
LOL John,
Tvad, doubtful, but nothing wrong with a friendly discussion is there? Obviously it'd be great if discussions like this grew into something that made a difference.
I believe we already know the REAL reason. |
Great posts Chris.
I am certainly not saying it is easy to start a company, such as one to make and sell cables, but again, neither is it for any other part of the industry. Also, I wouldn't throw us all under the bus by saying we don't have the guts to start a company, there are myriads of reasons why people don't.
Metro04, I suspect that discussion could spin this discussion out of control.
Leedistad, maybe I don't follow your post well enough, I did have to use a disctionary a few times. :) Are you suggesting the beauty (visual appeal) of the cable itself or the performance of the cable as part of "art" of music that can be priceless? Either way, I go back to points already made, that I don't see cables different from any other part of audio gear, yet the profit margin of cables seems to me, and others, to far exceed other audio gear.
Brian |
Jd, as someone who has dealt with you in the past, I purchased speaker cables from you, and as someone who admires your review that you wrote a few years ago on cables, I greatly respect your comments and thank you for taking time to write a lengthy post.
As to your point of why you purchased expensive cables, purchases above 20% of system cost, I dont argue your reason at all, never have, but rather why these cables had to cost you what they did. (I dont think this escapes you, but rather you are clarifying something that may be lost by some.)
You mention a $15000 cable by Tara; is it your opinion that possibly a reason for (some) of the high cost is that they are pioneering new ground and it is costly?
Allow me to question some of your costs in starting a new company. Generally someone starting a new company does so at some sacrifice, hopefully temporal, whether it be their time and/or finances. Example, a friend of mine opened a restaurant, he did a lot of labor himself; in this time he was not paying himself $100 an hour (using your example) but rather counted it as part of the cost of starting a business and hoping to reap the rewards down the road, which he has.
You gave a lot of numbers in your cable making scenario; is this to make and sell just one set of cables or can those costs drop dramatically when done on a larger scale?
My sense from your post, correct me if wrong, is that you feel cables are breaking new ground and this costs money. In this thread, I have repeatedly compared cables to the rest of the industry, so in that theme, in your opinion the rest of the industry is not breaking new ground to the level of cable manufactures?
Let me present another angle. A company makes a $300 IC and a $1000 IC, both are basic cables, that is, nothing cutting new ground like the Tara cables; the $300 version are copper and the $1000 are silver. This seems plausible in regards to many makes on the market. Id like to know what makes the $700 difference.
An area that I struggle with, hopefully I can articulate it well. Look at a set of cables, there just doesnt seem to be much there in comparison to say an amp, CDP, speakers, etc; so how do they do it? A CDP for example, you have to source a transport, DAC chips, electronics, a case, etc., quite a few things cable making doesnt have to deal with.
This has my head spinning, time to go watch the (re-aired) F1 race. (Don't tell me who won!)
Brian |
Excellent reply Jd. I think the problem we quasi audiophiles have is a $5,000 cable is almost in reach, where a $100,000 component is not. Good point and I think there is truth to this. That said, I continue to struggle with $5000 for "wire", especially if one were to compare it to say a $5000 amp. (Again, I am not denying their performance.) You have given some very thought provoking responses to this discussion Jd. Brian |
