The best tweeter is no tweeter


In a recent review in Stereophile for the Elac Carina over an AMT based speaker (I’m a fan of AMTs by the way) the author, Herb Reichert, makes this statement:

My personal experience suggests that the overall sound of any loudspeaker is greatly determined by the designer’s choice of tweeter.


and then he goes on to list some speakers with AMTs, some of which I like, some of which I hate, which he feels share the same qualities. And it got me thinking about something as I hook up my home theater again. In my mind, the very best tweeters are completely invisible and transparent. I do not suggest you should use a single-driver, full ranger with a whizzer, heavens no. That’s just wrong (grin) and a clear cry for help.


What I am suggesting is that in the very best tweeters in the world, of which some are AMTs, and many are not, you simply cannot tell what they are.


That is, they are absolutely transparent. You do not perceive sound emanating from them at all. Music is just there, in front of you. Some of these are ring radiators that are really reasonably priced. Some are German or Spanish AMTs, some are diamond or Be tweeters.


In fact, my home theater has both ring radiators and AMTs in them, both of which may be found among the most prestigious brands of speakers. Though they have entirely different operating principles and materials, their performance is absolutely seamless. I barely use EQ except for the sub and center due to the latter’s location on a shelf. What both of these tweeters share is incredibly smooth output (unlike crappy AMTs or Be tweets) that is flat to beyond 20 kHz.


Please, buy what you like, but to me, if you want to talk about a world class driver, it’s not one you can sit in front of and say "aha! I know this is an Aluminum/Be/Diamond/AMT tweeter!!"


If you can tell the type of tweeter you are listening to, I can assure you it is not among the best in the world.
erik_squires

Showing 8 responses by erik_squires

Ebay, $75/pair
xover a 2.2 cap.
trust me thats was quite enough.

Oh for heaven's sake.  You spent money on a random tweeter, threw a random cap on it and want to claim any authority at all about the sound of AMTs in general?

Erik I am very surprised you have not come around to FR/PS drivers as yet> whats up with that?  I thought you were in search for the worlds best sounding speakers??


I refer you back to my original post:

I do not suggest you should use a single-driver, full ranger with a whizzer, heavens no. That’s just wrong (grin) and a clear cry for help.



Now I did purchase a AMT, as per Erik
I hate it.
Its not efficient, sounds like a tinny cheap piece of junk./


<< sigh >>

I can’t stress enough how little these statements help anyone participate or learn. Exactly which AMT did you use?  How did you use it?  How did you design the crossover?

As I mention, repeatedly, AMTs like all other tweets span the gamut from terrible to amazing. Please be specific, otherwise it’s like saying:

"I got a sedan and it was terrible" and then implying all sedans are bad.  Or, "I got a hammer and the house I built with it fell down."

I think what Erik is saying is that a well implemented and integrated tweeter that disappears, is best.


That is exactly what I mean.

I been floored by plasma tweeters as well. The delicacy in sound is awesome but what really got me was the bite that brass instruments have.


I'm going to see if I can hear just this sometime.  My experience is limited to audio shows and hotel rooms and I was not floored. :)
The problem with most speakers is that the drivers don't add up to flat power output unless you are in the right place, which we call "the sweet spot".



This is only true if your definition of an ideal speaker is one with the widest sweet spot. Many are deliberately designed to avoid this in order to better work with room acoustics.  Further, show me a mastering room which uses an omni? If there are any, they are super rare.

Of course, buy what you like. :) Just saying that when you take a position like this you are doing so because you favor some things and not others.

Gang:

Please don't skip this part:

What I am suggesting is that in the very best tweeters in the world, of which some are AMTs, and many are not, you simply cannot tell what they are.

I don't actually have a problem with the Tektons, I think they are pretty innovative and unfairly maligned from a technical perspective.  But if you can sit in front of it and go "Aha, that's an SB 123 model tweeter" something is wrong.

:)

Erik
How is this thread any different from asking what the best speaker in the world is?



The person who started it and the content in the original post.
@kenjit

I dont care about the best tweeter. Whats the best speaker in the world?



Oops, sorry for stomping on your thread. It would be rude of me to bring in a whole different subject into a thread you started. Oh, wait, that was you.
Hahahah.


Erik
Side note:

There's a little info to be gleaned from the impedance plot of this speaker.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-carina-bs2434-loudspeaker-measurements

See the rising impedance above 6 kHz? Since AMTs are almost purely resistive above resonance, this indicates the crossover designer has incorporated some EQ into the crossover in order to achieve the remarkably flat (good) response. 


This goes to what I have been trying to explain to my fello A'goners, with mixed success. A crossover isn't just a frequency and a slope, but also EQ. If you want to reproduce a passive speaker's crossover in an active system you have to reproduce the entire voltage transfer function.