The best CD Player for the money

Hi, I already said the vincent will take atleast 500 hours to break-in, and the sound to fully intergrate and the bass slam to come thru, cheers.

Hi Ghosthouse,
The ICs I'm using are the Darwin Silver ICs (not the Ascensions). They really opened up the sound, so to speak, laying bare most everything. If it's coloration, shading or a tone control of sorts, these will not do. They are (in my system) very coherent.

All the best,
Nonoise

Roy - Thanks for the follow up. Again, the excerpt I quoted is below, though there were several places where comparisons were being made. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I could pretty much tell when the comparison was between redbook (aka hybrid layer?) and SACD or hi rez and something else.

This excerpt (it actually starts with "I also noticed changes in the sound of the acoustic bass….") can be found in the latter half of the second paragraph of the review section headed "Listening Session - Redbook".

"I observed greater density of the strings, greater impact, greater fullness and greater extension in the bass region. The instrument also sounded larger in size. The piano sounded fuller and had more weight….".

So my question was, "Compared to what?"

Thanks for the advice on the mat. I will look into that. Good luck figuring out the cause of changes you are hearing with the Vincent.

hi ghosthouse:

I could not find the quote you cited. I would say however, that I was not making a comparative statement between the teac and the Marantz and Vincent.

if you could cite the part of the review you cited, it would be easier to give a definitive answer.

given the information, I would guess the explanation is either one of the following:

a comparison between redbook and sacd or redbook and hrx

or

a general statement of a comparative nature relative to a number of cd players I have auditioned, but not suggesting that the teac exhibited these properties but that the Marantz or Vincent did not.
so , without further information, I would say it was a general comment comparing the teac to all other players I auditioned prior to reviewing the teac.

I would however, say that it is more likely that I am comparing redbook to another layer.

I would like to comment about the Marantz vs the tac.

I found the Marantz, while highly resolved, sometimes it was distracting and seemed that the level of detail exceeded that which one would experience when listening to
live music.

for me the teac is ideal for reviewing, because it is an honest player.

it removes a source of coloration that other players have.

i'm not sure. I may buy it myself. my ps audio perfect wave dac is in repair.

I would like to compare the ps audio pwt and pwt to the teac, in redwood mode.

one other issue with respect to the Vincent I do not understand.

the sound of the cd player changes from day to day.

yesterday it sounded very full bodied and today it sounded more detailed. I had played a cd for 48 hours prior to listening to the Vincent, and then observed the tube warmth. I turned it off and listened again today. the tube warmth disappeared.

by the way, you need to use a CD mat with the teac. i'd suggest the millennial mat. it really improves the treble response. the millennial mat is a carbon fiber mat.

Hi Audiolabyrinth - my apologies for a bit of a testy reply to your question about why the Teac vs Esoteric. I had assumed you knew the pricing on the two pieces.

Nonoise - I was really looking hard at Marantz. Your input certainly a factor in that. If you don't mind, what ICs are you running between yours and amp or pre?

@ Ghosthouse, Hi, Thats what I was looking for, the price difference between the Esoteric K-07 and the Teac cd-3000, Now all has made since, I understand when it comes to cost, cheers.

Ghosthouse,
I'm glad you like your TEAC. As you know, I went for the Marantz but in the end, it's all about what gets you down the path.

As revealing as these players are, with respect to the higher cost brands I think most of the added costs are in the casing and hardware (vault like transport mechanisms, isolation techniques, etc.). When one gets down to the end result (the actual sound) it all boils down to perspective and preference as one is only different and not necessarily better.

All the best,
Nonoise

Thanks, RH - fair enough. Happy to say I did purchase the TEAC. Got a great price on a demo (<<$2000) from Quest for Sound. In addition, Stephen allowed me to do an in-home trial with no obligation other than shipping. My previous experience with CDPs is nowhere near as extensive as yours nor with such sophisticated gear. I'd moved from a Cambridge Audio (D500?)SE to Upgrade Company modified Denon DVR2910 to the Teac. The Teac took a LOT of time to break in and early on I almost sent it back due to "lack of bass". Lot's of detail but not much warmth. Adequate burn-in time certainly took care of that concern. I'm really not sure what is meant by "liquidity" or how this would translate into something missing from my own listening experience. Bad CDs still sound bad although the up sampling feature seems to help in this regard. Todd Rundgren's remastered "A Wizard a True Star" is just about impossible to listen to. Upsampling helped with this recording. Lucinda Williams, "World Without Tears" redbook CD serves as a good example of a great recording that's even more enjoyable played by the Teac. For me, there is just "more" there…more presence of instruments, soundstage, air, bass. Plenty of mid-range bass and warmth because it's there on the CD. Another positive was listening to the SACD version of Peter Gabriel's "Up". Hearing it from the Teac was a goose-bump inducing, hair-raising experience….and I mean that in a good way. An uncanny sort of in the room presence. I was drawn to the Teac initially based on design. Dual DACs, twin power supply, high rez capable, digital in options (used with V-Link USB converter it has made the V-DAC I was using redundant), balanced XLR out terminals. These considerations checked off some boxes for me that the candidate Marantz players (8004 or 15S2B) did not. Cosmetically the Teac (mine in silver) is a beautiful unit and I like the design approach…not fussy, almost minimalist but providing exactly the needed functionality. Set up is extremely easy compared to some of the very well-regarded hi value offerings that also do video. Couple of things that "bug" me about it: 2 second delay between tracks on SACD. This interrupts the music when one track fades continuously into another with out intentional recorded gap between the tracks; also (minor) no way to open the loading tray from the remote. FWI - running the Teac with tube pre and amps (Consonance Cyber 50 & 800SEs). Will also use it with a Hegel 200 (anxious to try balanced IC). Speakers are Totem Forest. ICs right now are Anti-cables. Do plan to try some others.

For Audiolabyrinth as to why would someone buy the Teac and not the entry level Esoteric? For some of us, a $4000 price differential can be a strong inducement.

at this juncture, I will not purchase the marantz, and because of the Vincent's limitations--no SACD or acceptance of high resolution files, and the fact that I own three other tubed players, I will not purchase the Vincent.

my issue with the TEAC is that it lacks liquidity. It is ruthlessly revealing of recordings, but may be invaluable when reviewing other components.

if I were to buy the TEAC it would depend upon the price.

PS - RH,
Do you still intend to purchase the Teac?
I'll be interested in your reasons [as promised earlier :-) ] if you are.

Mr. Tennis - Thanks for notifying of the Teac review. I've read it a couple of times. A lot of information conveyed. I do have a question. As I read, I see use of comparative adjectives throughout the article. In several places it's obvious comparisons are between the Teac's playback modes (e.g., redbook Vs SACD). In other places, not quite as clear. In the below excerpt from the "redbook listening session", is the sound from the Teac being compared to "CD players [you] auditioned recently"; i.e. the Vincent and Marantz? That seems the case but please confirm.

"I observed greater density of the strings, greater impact, greater fullness and greater extension in the bass region. The instrument also sounded larger in size. The piano sounded fuller and had more weight…."

Thanks in advance.

hi ghosthouse:

the review of the teac cd-3000 is on the website.

my take on the Marantz vs the teac:

the teac, while "neutral", is somewhat smoother in the Redbook mode.

they are about equal playing high resolution files, and the Marantz is a better SACD performer.

I'll definitely check. Thanks Roy.

hi audiolabyrinth:

i did not say that i favored the marantz over the vincent.

the two brands have a differnt house sound.

the vincent has a tube circuit which is tube sensitive. i have tried many combinations of tubes. i have owned the cd-s6 for 6 years and reviewed the cd-s7 dac.

i also reviewed the marantz sa-14s1.

i know its sound. i will not say one is better than the other. it is like apples and oranges. it is a matter of taste.

when you are a reviewer, you become less judgmental about sound, and let others decide which is better.

you have strong opinions that i respect. please try not to misinterpret what i say in the future.

this message is for ghosthouse:

i finished the TEAC review. it should be on the web site shortly.

hi nonoise:

i do have a unique reviewing style. i pride my self in not revealing my preferences in a review.

i just reviewed another player which will be appearing on audiophilia.com, which i will probably buy. i will explain my reasons for doing so.

This quote led me to believe a recommendation of sorts was implied. Now that I'm familiar with your style and intent (which I approve of) I'll be more circumspect in drawing the usual conclusions. :-)

All the best,
Nonoise
Nonoise (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

Very Nicely put Nonoise

Audiolabyrinth, I know of that 2 dimensional soundstage you speak of and it went away when I got my Marantz SA-15S2b. My soundstage is now the same height from extreme left to right (higher, in fact), extends further into my listening room, and has much better layering as you go back. It's not 'Star Trek' holographic but conveys a really nice soundstage, depending on recording.

As for body, that was the first thing that hit me when I first played the Marantz. There was more weight, gravitas and strength in the music, allowing more headroom for that soft pp to loud ff. As it got stronger, realism increased dramatically as playing became more natural. I don't know how else to say it.

As for the resonance tuning, could it be that the Marantz has a more solid build quality that what would tame negative resonance problems? I just tried a quick study with some heavy books on my Marantz and couldn't detect anything amiss no matter where I placed them. Could it be the Vincent isn't as robustly built as the Marantz and therefore benefits from the additional dampening?

All the best,
Nonoise

MrT, sorry for taking your findings out of context but this part:

"Its level of clarity and focus have been unsurpassed by any digital hardware that I have heard both from my own stereo system and at audio shows.

I cannot imagine any other CD player, or transport and DAC combination attaining any more music from a recording, without inducing imbalances in frequency response, especially excess treble energy. I think Marantz has pushed the envelope by creating a balance between high levels of resolution and a lack of audible coloration."

This quote led me to believe a recommendation of sorts was implied. Now that I'm familiar with your style and intent (which I approve of) I'll be more circumspect in drawing the usual conclusions. :-)

All the best,
Nonoise

@ mrtennis,I disagree with your comparisons of the marantz and vincent, I know something of the vincent you have never tried!, resonance tunning!, there is not a marantz now or ever that will better the bass and 3-dimensionality of the vincent cd-s7!, The marantz players are 2-dimensional sounding, they will never have the full body of the vincent player!, using the vincent by its self has a different sound, put a 2 inch thick by 10 inches long by 6 inches phone book on top of the vincent player and move it around to tailor your tast is astounding!, the marantzes will not do that!, I have had many players, none of them has the dimensionality, deep sound stage, The Body!, huge sound stage as the vincent player, LOL!, defiantly no marantz!, Grey9hound, I gurantee you that the vincent player with tunning is extremly better than the marantz period, thats my opinion, what do I know,LOL!

OK. Thanks for the reply Roy. I'll be interested in your observations.

hi ghosthouse:

I have the teac cd-3000 in my stereo system and am almost finished with the review. it will appear on audiophilia.com.

I will report on this thread when it is up on the web site. then we can talk about the teac and Marantz if you want.

hi nonoise:

I did not give the Marantz player any recommendation. I reported what I heard. I never recommend components, because I try not to influence the reader.

roy harris

Mr. Tennis - Are you still planning to review the TEAC CD/SACD player?

Yea NoNoise it(The SA-14S1) also has USB ,Coaxial and Toslink Inputs
Thanks for the advice . I think i am Leaning heavier in the SA-14S1 direction.

having reviewed both. the difference is night and day. the marantz is highly resolving and thus you are at the mercy of recording quality. however it has added features , such as sacd, which Improves the sound, compared to redbook. it produces a more full bodied sound, greater spatiality and greater bass extension. it also plays high resolution files or HRx (Reference Recordings hi rez discs).

the Vincent has a bit of tube warmth and is more forgiving of problem recordings.

you can read my review by going to the archive section and search for digital components.

it is hard to pick one or the other because features are different and the sound of each is a polar opposite of the other.

That Marantz SA-14S1 got an unequivocal recommendation from Roy Harris as being up there with the best he's heard and not hearing anything better regardless of format.

Even though my SA-15S2b is a generation removed and one rung down from this player, it's still mighty fine and goes to show that one needn't spend a fortune to get great sound, just a small fortune. :-)

All the best,
Nonoise

@mrtennis
I was considering the Marantz SA-14S1 or the Vincent Cd-S7 Dac.
Any thoughts about the two ?
I noticed when i go to the audiophilia website , thats the first thing i see is the Marantz SA-14S1. I Know my question was about the Vincent ,BUT, Since it lookslike you have experience with bot , could you tell me your thoughts on the Vincent CD-S7-DAC vs the Marantz SA-14S1 ?

@ Grey9hound, Hi, I told you Mrtennis was cool!, He enjoys his Vincent, go ahead, read his review!, I cannot waite to get another one!,mmm, A small loan perhaps, I am getting nancy here needing that player back on my system!

the Vincent cd-s7 dac is distributed in Canada. read my review. it is on the website audiophilia.com.

here is the phone number for the distributor : 514 225 2337.

Ok , WHERE can one get the Vincent CD-S7 DAC version .
Anyone know ?

I second that claim of Mrtennis!, I once owned a vincent cd-s7, returned it, thought more money would bring a better player, going on the fourth player since 4-2012, LOL!, this fourth player I am going back to the vincent cd-s7 player, It is the most musical player I have heard, and the most realistic betral of real music, tone is spot on, bass is to die for, the presatation of the sound stage is unbelieveable!, cheers.

i have a vincent cd-s7 dac which is the best player i have heard in my system, and based on what i have heard at shows, it would probably be my favorite player at any price. it retails at $3000.

I have been living with an Aesthetix Romulus valve cd player for a while now & have to say i'm blown away by how good this player sounds at the price. I haven't heard other players with big claims at this price point (eg: EAR Acute 3), but th Romulus sounds natural, open, analogue & musical, especially with Jorma Prime cables. There is a touch of warmth and sweetness which serves instruments and jazz very well. I'm impressed!

North Star Design-Sapphire. No longer in production but I assume $1k could get you a near mint one. The Sapphire just gets out of the way of the music. If you want a new player look into several Audio Analogue models or even the Chinese made Lite Audio CD 22.

I recently replaced an Ayre CX-7 with an Oppo 105-considering it plays multi-formats it must be a consideration for the title in this thread.

It is a very good CD player.

I like the sound of the Sony s9000es an awful lot and the old Cal Audio DX-1 sounds like vinyl to me. But neither play CD-R so I'm in the market for something newer. I'm currently looking at a Teac H600 and wondering why this player gets rave reviews but no mention here.

I will have to purchase the Teac without listening. Anyone here heard one and care to offer an opinion?

what is a cd player? kidding

Cambridge Azur 651C CD Player very nice machine

I just bought Oppo 105. If you want at least part of the time to use the analogue audio part of the time (lots of people believe analogue is always better than digital), the Oppo has no competition. It does so many things well, I believe it is the best for the money, not $10,000 but $1200 and the Oppo 103 sells for $500. Not quite as wonderful as the 105 but again, the best for the money. This must be a very important thread to have been here so many years. Happy listening and watching.

@ Monster7, I second that!, 13 years is amazing!, this one must hold the record!, LOL!, tell me if you find a thread older?,, cheers!

how can this post lasted for 13 years???!!!
amazing

@ Abruce, wow!, I never seen that price on the used market here on the audiogon for a used Ayon cd-2!, I bought a new 2s player, that is a lot better than the original cd-2!,, cheers!

You can get a great used cdp for 2500 the Ayon cd2

I know I already said The Ayon cd-2s, I just got the player when I made my last post,For the $6,500.00 class of players and down, I have never heard a player as great sounding as this!, very well worth the money to me!, I have listened to alot costlier digital players that was not this good!, Happy listening!

I searched for a CDP for about a year to replace a Naim CDX2 in my set up. Home demoed Wadia 381, Audio Research CD5 Krell SACD505 and Sugden PDT4F. I finally settled on the Electrocompaniet EMC1UP.
The EMc1UP gives me everything I was looking for in a CDP... rich texture and detailed sq... the only one to come close was the Sugden.

I can't claim to know the answer to that, as I've heard only a small fraction of the players out there. Also,the question--"what's the best CD player for the money?"--is highly relative. Best play for the money in what price class?

That said, the best player I've heard in the under $5K class (and the one I own) is the all tube Prima Luna Prologue 8 at $3,500 list. Needs a long burn in time (the manual says 100 hours... but I'd recommend at least 200) and can greatly benefit from upgraded NOS tubes. I used the stock tubes for burn-in, then replaced them with a Phillips/Mullard combination recommended by Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio--and the result was the most analogue sounding music I've ever heard from a CD player. Soundstaging is excellent and the bass digs deep. I'm sure there must be better players out there, but I haven't heard one under $5K that beats the Prima Luna.

I've got recently Lenovo Q190 Idea centre mini desktop that I mounted onto my TV through the supplied mounting bracket.
Iv'e replaced hard disk to solid state one.
The playback is fantastic as well as vedeo performance trhrough the blu-ray ROM/CD/DVD/RW drive.

For the money, a Marantz SA 8004 is the winner.

I have owned a Sony C333ES and a Cambridge Audio 840C.

Like many, for awhile i went the computer route, Mac, good Dac...
Very easy, no hassle, no jitter, good sound... thought I arrived...

But recently went back to my old Stan warren modded pioneer dv-c503 (blackgates, etc.) with a simple valab Dac...

Just way, way more dynamic, black background, deep thumping bass and drums... Incredible musicality...

Computer system can't compare...

Will a current cd player/transport offer more?

@ Dmacg: How's the reliability of that player, though. I have heard instances of reliability problems with mid-level stuff like Cambridge (and NAD.)

I have had many cd players in my system. The sound quality and build quality of the Ayon is second to none..... My brother and I both have had wonderful Naim players also.. ( he is huge Naim guy). But the lushness of this Ayon CD2s does it for me I am all tube and loving it! Manley 250 amps, steelhead, genesis G5.3 and absolute Fidelity cables throughout. The only peice without a tube is my Brinkman Bardo TT....
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