Dirt Lovers: Soon, I intend to hook up two A500's directly to a Oppo DV-970 HD ( $577.00 total investment) connecting them to the Nova Evolution III Speakers ($39,500.00 the last time I checked). I'll keep you informed should that combo comes close to the Big Rig. |
Eldartford : I understand your reaction. I'm a hard core tube guy but Peters review caught my eye so I purchased Two 500-A's that I use as 500W mono blocks . Remember these are Studio Amps . Take a look at Musican's Friend web site look over the specs. They are unbeatable at 10x the price . You get free shipping and a 45 day money back. If you don't need or want 500w mono blocks for under $500 no problem. Stereophile knows of them but apparently refuses to publish based the concern that Berringer reportly has a spotty record for supporting parts. For that reason I purchased and additional warrenty period & that warrenty still keeps the tab under $500. Out of the box cold they are killers but of course its all up to the buyer. |
Tb69396: Sorry to learn of your problem. By chance did you buy from Musicans Friend ? They sent mine Fed Ex no problem. Several years ago I was trucked a CJ 100 that was pretty banged up when I opened the box . I had to drive to N. Va from Towson, MD 3 x to fix the Amp.
Tb , are you awaire that when the 500A is used solo it rating is 130w @ 4ohms. I'm uncertian of the load factor for the focus but possibly the ohm rating was off resulting in thin mids , weak highs and bloated bass. Sometimes a resistor change within the amp or added to one link of the interrconnects can restore balance . Sounds bad but fixable.
The Denon is a good unit . A nice alcohol swabbing of the of the connections , a little fine sand paper on the plug , alcohol soaked cotton balls to clean the prongs of any residue w/ a touch of 3-in-one-oil on the cleaned plug prongs , hook it up and away you go to music-land. You could also crack the case replace the fuse with one of those upscale 24k units ( at approx. $30 ea.) & sapp the connections on the back w/ a little battery dc from a Aq Phono Demager to recalabrate , putting a Eagle socket in the wall($1.49). The re-do will flip you out. Best of luck! |
Pedrillo : Thanks, I will be posting later in the summer. |
Jtofish : Have you reviewed the article on The Audio Critic web Site. Peter A. thinks they are a great buy. As for being PA amps well I think studio /stage amp is closer to the facts.
To Seth: The sound to me could be characterized as silky mids , no congestion during complicated musical passages ,lots of detail an deep bass. No solid-state burnout to my ears. Perhaps they are a tad "dry" but listen to the 500's in a reference system changing them out for anything between 5-10K US. Of course they are voiced differently but not that different to justify the expense. Buy them , save as much money as possible buying the best speakers your money can buy. If possible have a dealer hook up the 500s so you can hear them in real time before buying those speakers.
Seth,do you know what's really scary in 2 channel? Buy a Oppo HD 970 via the internet hook that unit straight into two 500's, the 500's into your choice of speakers. Perhaps one of the best buys in audio today for less than $700 w/o speakers. |
Readers : From the numbers in a few days(1000+) it seens that some us are searching for true audio bargins. So why not expand the "blog" to The Best Audio for the price of dirt? My intent that we advise of audio bargins , some noted in the audio print community and on the internet, with a flow of contributions by threaders like you. Any objections ? |
Mbacinello : Thank you for the imput. A posting on the nOrh web site states the Le Amp has been discontinued and replaced with Le Mono Block Amp III @ $ 395 each. The Belles soloist preamp retails for $750. Does anyone have first hand experience with the Belles products , or the nOrh amps to relate to us ? A shoot-out between the 500's and the Le Amp III's might be an eye opener from either side. |
Cdc: are you referring to the nOrh Le Mono Block Amp III. If so which distributer so we may purchase. Thanks |
Check out the tnt web site that containes a rave review on the sonic impact ($39 ) and the T- Preamp ( $ 80'ish) for 15w @ 8 ohms w/ high eff speakers of your choice. Appears to be one way to go . Lots of DIY tweeks to ramp-up the amp .
The current issue of TAS has a combo review of a NAD int.amp and CD player for $700. More bread no tweeks. Perhaps another alternative. |
Jtgoish: You have got to be kidding! Who are US Amplifers Builders Union? I have NEVER been a member of a union. The answer is NO . If that means I'am excluded from some extra-special group --SO ...I love the experience of recorded playback. |
The Sonic T appears to be the value of the decade. The web reviews are amazing and the amp appears to be a tweekers/DIY delight.
What impressed me about the Berringer A 500's (and return to them) was how much in terms of value I got out of the box . Plug an play.
My reference rig is ruthlessly revealing and not for everyone. The Nova Audio Evolution Speakers in the rig are costly, weight a Ton (1,200 lbs.) and so few have been manufactured I have yet to see them offered for resale. It was a shock to me how well a pair 500's worked into my system , particularly on electronic & classical music.
The 500's only seem to get better with age. Don't get me wrong the S-T is a terrific buy and mated well must be something to hear. |
Tonight , I checked the price of the Behringer Reference Amplifier A 500 on MusicansFriend.Com. The price has increased to $199.US not including an additional 1 yr. warrenty period for $16.45 US per unit...shipping is free.
The 500's are still a bargin. Check out the web site www.behringer.com and download the User's Manual from there or the other mentioned web site to personally read the details. What you get for the money is no slight of hand.
The 500's are but one of many options . $ for $ they are impressive. |
Earlier, I mentioned a TAS article on NAD . The article "Redefining Value" is in the 2/07 issue , page 26 by Barry Willis regarding the NAD C 325BEE Int.Amp & the C 525BEE CD Player. Excellent read. |
In addition , I mentioned in a earlier thread chaining the A500's to a Oppo Cd player ($149US). I purchased the player and it put to shame 5K worth of EAD. For more of a read 1/07 TAS 2006 Product of the Year Awards - Oppo HD 970. |
The real surprize is when you chain two units as mono blocks. The "volumn knobs" are excellent gain controls. |
As mono blocks they have few contenders . For me I alternate between my Paoli SOB mono's in winter & the A 500's in summer chained to a Sp 10 MK II with mods. Yes, Yes they are transformed as mono blocks. |
The specifications page of the User's manual states the output circuitry is Push-Pull Class AB. |
Cwlondon : I have never had a problem . I do use the vol. controls as gain controls @ 1/2 or so . The Amps meters should denote clipping. I have never used the Amps to clipping range. What kind of monitors are you using? |
According to AG , this post has surpassed 10,000 views , something of a "Dirt" landmark. Thanks to you , "Dirt" rolls-on 10,230V and counting. |
Jtgofish : Which edition of HI FI World contained the review of the 500A 's ? Have you read the review on Audio Critic ? |
Jtgofish: Thanks for the information & verdict.
I try to read as much as possible & listen to audio gear whenever time allows. I make the attempt to educate myself by reading various magazines and online. Just because read a lot of opinions doesn't mean I agree, but I do read them. Lately, I have also taken to meeting some analog designers in homes of friends , something a bit different . Audio has been my hobby for 30+ years.
I agree with your conclusion -- the Behringer's need careful matching and common sence. So far I have not experienced the distortion issue , perhaps because I use them as mono blocks at lesser wattage . For me they were a surprize, sweet beautiful music. For next to no money (out of the box) they are a value. Enjoy the Music. PS what's the US Amp.Union all about? |
I agree, it's a j-o-k-e ... To enjoy music , playback and share a word on gear that might, just might make a difference to someone without the big $$$$ . As for dirt, I see a dirth of excellent gear resting on White Elephant Tables all for the want of a fuse. Talk about a j-o-k-e !
One underlying idea presented in "Dirt" was the notion that these new , China made / Euro designed products MAY fill a niche in the consumer audio-market. And , that of the China made units the 500's presented more value.
Personally, I'm a valve person, however, the 500's found a place in my Rig as has Coda, ARC and a few others. With exception of some exceptional second-hand buys made over the years, the 500's (inter-net priced) are a bargin. Matching & Common-Sence required by the end-user , be that The Joker , Batman or JQ. |
Threaders : Today, I forwarded an email to Behringer in regard to comments printed regarding the 500A in the "Hi-Fi World Magazine" , issue 12/06.
I requested they provide us with a reaction ; comments & a solution (should one be possible) to the distortion alleged in the review.
In light of the sheer numbers of viewers to our thread ,I feel, it is to the interests of everyone to "clear the air" on the issue. |
Threaders: No response to my email as of today. |
Cwlondon: Its good news to know your Behringer stuff " sounds better and better ". I'm with you ... For what you get for $169 they can be forgiven for no customer service /response. I'll "bank" the difference @ the Bank. |
Readers , just a FYI: The two Berringer A-500s continue in my possession and operate flawlessly. They are to me the Dirt Kings @ up to 500 W mono per side that is highly regulated wattage that can be easily adjusted from 0-500W. I believe they now retail @ $269 per side but can be found discounted over the internet. Absolutely not SOTA but not so bad a runner in the race , considering they work with most panels and drivers on the market. All The Best |
D: Tisch , tisch may you live to be as old as Mr. Aczel.
To distill Mr. Aczel's review , the A-500's are pretty good. Cheap and inexpensive have different meanings. These inexpensive amps deliver far more technology than the retail price reflects. For someone on a budget that wants 0-500W Mono Blocks , these amps deliver or at least these two do.
As spring comes in my part of the US of A, I turn off my tubes (too hot) and rely on solid state for a few months. I counld care less should Peter has a hearing problem of not, the A-500's handel the job for my summer months and any other time. Oh, D have a little more respect for your elders. Soon enought your hearing will be abuzz with age. |
Johnnyb53, FYI : T.A.S. has included the A-9555 in its recommended buys for '08. |
D: Mr. Aczel is not the objective of this thread. The A-500's offer a significant value for the money. Thats it.
As mentioned to the Editor of Stereophile a few years ago , audio products designed elesewhere (as the A-500) and manufactured in China are going to become a norm. With Quad and B&W who's next? Crack the top of the 500 and see the reason ... I think I hear a buzz... |
Just A Thought : Here are a few universal issues to mention with amplifiers; the design , execution of the design and manufacturing process. If the design is properly engineered and is fully executed in the manufacture , the product should produce the expected result. Makes no difference if we are discussing widgets or amplifiers. The greatest difficulity is execution. With lots of compromises made for reduced manufacturing cost, each has a impact on the finished product. For example,when one examines Edison's machines/processes, those machines in exsistence still work and most to his qualifications, and most are over a 100 years old. Its simple and time honored , garbage in garbage out. Superior engineering & design in , superior manufacture in , excellent results out. Hasn't changed since the clovis spear points to today. But what is important is to recognize what is "real" vs what is "hype". And for that only your circumstances and your ears are the ulitmate decider.
The sole point in acknowledging the A-500's had to do with the fact they were such a surprize (for the money) and that perhaps a cash strapped audio-head would see them as a hold-over or a reference, as they decide. |
R: I do believe Mr. Hirsch has passed while Mr. Aczel is well into his 80's. No re-incarnation just a guy (right or wrong) who believes what he believes. He is worth knowing even if you disagree with ever word. As the phrase goes "knowledge is power". Thanks for all the A-500 info. |
E : Your A charm .... Buzz, Buzzz |
I have a good friend who understands audio circuits better than most of us know the image of our hands & faces. I have observed him to understand & doctument the history of any particular electronic circuit to its orgins; nothing (in electronics) seens to escape his mind-set.
Armed with 60-80 year old manuals pencil & paper Gary ,devoted 30+ years of research & study to circuits measuring and applying time honored mathamatical formula's to a collection of tube amps (50+ pairs in total). Never one to just leave an error in a circuit , Gary applied his knowledge to a "Hall of Fame" of amps ; each sounding more breathtaking following revision, be that an intentional or error(s) of omission by the initial designer(s).These revisions he applied one at a time until the finished unit was(to my ears and others)a work of art. Those efforts out-stripped any re-worked products hyped in the aura of "Best-Much Better in Audio Land". He is sucessful due to an understanding of the components that make up a circuit , its tolerances , limits and improvement far removed from the cap-changing crowd. That understanding is so fluid that when exchanging ideas with someone like Lew Johnson or others they appeared to express amazement having met someone who understood a product as well or better than they.
Moreover, from our friendship I learned the importance of design , execution and manufacture as touch-stones of what makes a product Ok vs a Classic . Price rarely reflects value , and value may become even more important today as we have endured historic price rises .
The A-500's are not exactly classics , nor are they Ok but they are quite a value for the $. |
Quandary : Has this bus fallen off the cliff with anybody on board --- Bose ????? (Mr. Bill included). |
R : Your forgiven only if the rest of us are included, Mr. Bill too. |
Cwlondon: How long have they been operational ? |
Stevecham : The thread is entitiled Best Amps for the Price of Dirt, not best amps regardless of price. Just a Post Note, I have friends that spend & spend and a few that just don't have any objections to buying most anything that mates with the other $$$$$$ they own. Even they find fault(s) with their amps. So, that's just the way of the hobby -- Ear fatigue hits all and nothing is perfect. The thrust of the Thread is to alert the cash aware they exist for lots less than some alternatives. No more or less -- A great buy (to some). All the Best. |
Happy: I did review the 6 moons article , the Glow One @ $488 per side isn't bad @ 5w. The A-500's are solid state, adjustable output @ up to 500w 8 ohms per side , thats 1000w total, stable on loads @ 2 ohms and when I purchased them including an exrea 2 years of warranty, $194 each delivered. |
Golly, What kind of representative of your profession are you ? I discern anger ... Go somewhere else & leave us in peace. |
Pedrillo : I revamped my listening space using the A500's & the APPO hooked to my ref. speakers. The A500's are so better than the trash talk in HI-FI and under $400 US a pair w/ext-warrenty. If your looking for a far less-expensive alternative w/ stunning musical sound this dirt cheep combo will not disappoint w/ the APPO ($169 US). Are they a Krell or a Mac ? NO , but none of you friends may tell the difference. Just my opinion. I love them and alternate between the A500's and my very costly gear ; six months in six months out. Tubes in winter. |
Readers: It is true that the published bench tests reveal the A500's may not spec, as well as, say a Bryston. That is a fact. Nevertheless, the claim is these differences are subtel :The 500's are more than good enought to "meet all criteria for transpartent sound " , as stated in a review. That critic believes no one , except a few 18 year olds , could actually hear the difference. Well, I'm over 18 so that leaves me out of the debate.
It is my opinion, the A500 , as a mono blocks, are the most amazing find/value in Audio-Land. Period. For what they offer & for such value, an eager ear candy person (like me) can shift funds to upgrading the P/A or speakers to the surprise or chagrin of the other ear hounds. The only unanswered "Q" had to do with reliability; so far they answer as flawless, high performers , at the lowest price. I crown the A500's " The Best Amp(s) for the Price of Dirt " and you would also, should you buy them. |
Johnnyb53, Thank you for a thoughtful view of the A-9555. We "dirt" folks need all the options that can be had in Audio-World. Do you have any recommendations for DVD/CD players ? I personally like the OPPO products , what about you. |
Johnnyb53, Any hands on experience with record player's (that's all in one)? |
Johnnyb53, What I ment , are you into analog and if so what analog rig would you recommend. I used the term record player to denote an all in one (turntable,arm & cartridge). Any ideas to share? |
Johnnyb53, Thank you for your recommendations. Are there others out there with hands-on experience with recommendations ?? |
Johnnyb53 : Can we please keep Aczel out of this? He certianly causes blood to boil. Unfortunately, I never appreciated the anger issue when I mentioned his review. He detracts from the fact, the 500A's as mono blocks are certianly outstanding driving the Nova Enolution , a full range speaker in my home.
As for professional stage amps ,I agree, I also would never use them . My cousins are professional musicans (LA, Vegas & Touring) & I also play guitar as an aside. I prefer nos tube Marshall, Fender and VOX , although lately my cousin ,Tony Scuito, has been using some strange named Chinese gear he gets from the distributors. Having been on the road before I understand the issues. Of course, for a coffee house singer & player on a tight budget a 500a could work.
I'm going to give a look to the SLA's . All the best. |
Just in case your interested, I mention the A-500's are operating as new, trouble free. They have risen in price and who knows if the quality is the same but mine continue to be "The Best (cheap mono) Amps for the price of dirt". Of course there are many other receiver-type products that claim to rival the A-500's and that maybe. But for now, with exception of the big buck entree mono blocks these are an outstanding bargins for someone needing power within a budget. They can drive almost any speaker on the planet w/o stress(mono-block configuration). |
Todate, over 12,000 readers have viewed this thread. Thank you for giving us a read. |
According to Jim Smith's new book "Get Better Sound", identical amps with gain controls are preferred for "vertical bi-amping". I believe these amps will be able to be bi-amped in the manner Jim depicts, another plus. |
The tube amps in the "Big Rig" are in for a refirb. The A-500's never sounded so delicate ... Thank you to all ... You can not appreciate how delicate the sound is following 500 hrs of break-in. Thanks ... |
