Testing Ethernet switch

@jeffrey125 

Thanks much - and ditto!

Best,

I’ll add my experience. I initially purchased the Network Acoustics Eno filter system. I had a 30 day trial period within which I could return it for a full refund. I had also ordered the English Electric 8 network switch but it hadn’t come in as of yet. 

Candidly, I heard little to no difference with the insertion of the Eno filter and was going to return it. I don’t throw money out windows. But, as the company said it was important to upgrade the switch, I waited so I could audition them together.

Paired together, it was a clear improvement. Not night and day, but an improvement enough to keep the units. I did try the switch alone and while it made an audible difference, it was the pairing that brought the most benefit. 

My point is that I did not fall prey to psychoacoustics or confirmation bias. I was about to send back the filter - which is designed to clean up the Ethernet signal from ride along noise. The network switch is working on the same concept.

What i think the OP is missing are two things: 1) few are disagreeing that the network packets arrive fully intact and that timing is a non-factor, and 2) noise (not hiss, but EMF, etc.) is carried along with the signal. This is because while the network is transmitting 1s and 0s, that signal is in the form of analog electrical pulses not immune to noise. 

Hans Beekhuyzen addresses this in a YouTube video - and shows how this can be measured before and after the network switch. That we can hear the difference (not night and day, but audible) should be no surprise. 

In summary, the data is bit perfect. The packets are in order and there are no timing issues being addressed by the switch. The upgraded network switches are doing nothing to the signal in this aspect.

Yet there is an audible difference between stock and some upgraded audiophile hardware because the latter is reducing the amount of other things carried along the ride. It’s not all snake oil (some is).

I would ask the OP to reconsider.  While you appear to know far more than many of us about how networks work, perhaps that doesn’t translate into knowing all that is necessary to understand how sensitive digital audio conversion is to noise.

That’s why cables (all of them actually, digital, analog, speaker and A/C) are so audibly different.

Best,

I have been quiet on this thread or a while as it devolved.  I am going to step back in gently to point out to @tvrgeek that I did point you to proof that other things are carried along. Hans Beekhuyzen measured it. You dismissed it as irrelevant. Yet, it is there. You believe it cannot impact the sound quality and it’s possible you’re correct. But, you disallow for the possibility that you are not correct. There is noise on the circuit. It can be measured. 

May I suggest that we discontinue the discussion. Some of us have experience beneficial impact from improved network switches. Others believe that cannot be the case. There is some evidence to support both positions. Neither position is fully validated by what is known or what can be measured. 

Let’s leave it there.

Peace.

@tvrgeek 

Well, since you couldn’t resist, here we go again.

Not knowing exactly what something is does not mean it is irrelevant. You continue to dismiss extraneous signal which is being measured (and heard by some of us). This is not an extraordinary claim.  

I get that you believe your knowledge to be superior in this area. Here’s my observation. 

You know enough to be dangerous. You proselytize as if your knowledge is complete, though clearly, it is not. Nobody’s is. 

In the process, you have indirectly or directly accused every single manufacturer of devices aimed at improving digital playback as being a charlatan - selling snake oil. All of them are dishonest?  There are a lot of them. While I’m sure there are some, I do not accept that all of them are dishonest.  Your overconfidence in this regard is quite stunning. Perhaps you should reach out to one of these dishonest companies to ask them what they’re doing and why?

You have also indirectly or directly accused those of us as having decided to purchase such items as being gullible chumps. 

If you worked for me at my company, I’m guessing I would have let you go, even if you were a particularly gifted engineer. You are not aware of your own limitations and seemingly lack intellectual curiosity. People who believe they know everything tend to make poor employees - because they’re poor learners.  And, they tend to be caustic to high performing teams. 

That’s my read on things. You’ll undoubtably disagree with all of it. It matters not as there’s nothing constructive in continuing this thread.

Not flat out impossible. You stated earlier in this thread “that (noise) should be handled by the client”. 

Ideally yes. In practice? Perhaps no.

I have offered more evidence of the possibility of why things sound different than you have offered proof of the impossibility of such. We both have beliefs supported by anecdotal evidence - neither of us have solid proof. I acknowledge that. You do not. You are beholden to dogma as much as any of us, but lack the self awareness to acknowledge as much. 

And I can’t help but go back to the notion that you have accused ALL makers of such devices of devious, dishonest practices. This is a claim you cannot (or have not to date) back up with facts, though you keep repeating the same idea that measured noise is irrelevant. Nor are you even willing - by your own admission - to investigate further as quoted below: 

“If ANY obscure possibility existed for what is claimed, yes I would try one. I await said evidence.”

I have offered exactly that. Exactly. You have declined and accused all manufacturers of such devices to be scammers. 

Perhaps you have been trolling us and i fell for it. No more. As you can’t add to the discussion or knowledge base, I’m out.

@koh_i_noor 

More knowledge is nowhere near complete knowledge.

That said - I actually do understand how quite well how Ethernet works. I also  understand digital transmission quite well in general.

Unfortunately, I do not understand why an upgraded switch makes a difference other than perhaps the extraneous noise being carried along. Yet (for the nth time) it is measurable. And I only knew that it was measurable after I listened to the difference. We’re not talking night and day, but we are talking audible.

What I also don’t get is why those of you who think you’re so well versed in such things are unable to understand your own limitations and are correspondingly lacking the intellectual curiosity to even explore further. And, in the process you call all other people who’ve delved into this (manufacturers and consumers) deluded or dishonest. 

Do the work. Explore for yourself. Then come back to us and tell us you found no difference. If you do that, I will accept your viewpoint gracefully. However, until then - your “evidence” is merely your belief. 

Do the damn work before claiming intellectual superiority. Until then - your word isn’t even as good as others who have done the work. Sheesh.