Technics 1200G vs VPI Forever Model One

@lewm as I've read more it sounds like I would potentially need a thicker mat for my Hana cartridge on the 1200G anyway. Certainly something I'd need to consider. So many mixed reviews and comments, so it might not be totally necessary, but seems like it wouldn't hurt. 

Upgrade to a next level phonostage if you haven’t already to make either choice perform its best.

Thank you, I forgot to add my other associated equipment. I meant to do that. 

I currently have a Hana ML on the Ultradeck, and I will likely carry that onto either new table. That runs into a Bob's Devices Sky 20-S and then a Sutherland 20/20 w/LPS. 

@alucard19 No offense but I would not put the PLX-1000 in the same category as the 1200G in any way except for looks. There are a number of reasons that table cost a fraction of the price. 

I plan to install my Triplanar on my Technics SA1200G as soon as I can

I would love to see that once it’s done. Sounds like a very cool project. 

@tablejockey  I have been looking at the MasterDeck, but to be honest the price reduction on the Ultra/Studio decks without a follow up product is a big turn off for me. It’s hard to spend $6K when I can’t help but think if they’ll lower it to $4,500 in a year. 

I got on the Ultradeck at the original higher introductory price, I won’t do it again for the MasterDeck. Not saying it will happen, but that thought will always be there if I got it at the current price. 

@tablejockey You are making the 1200G feel like a bit of a goldilocks here. Not to expensive, not too cheap. Holds value. 

The Japanese stuff always comes back to the Toyota analogy... hmm. 

Seems to me he's made it already.

You know, until last weekend I was dead set on the 1200G, and now I'm really questioning it. If I could demo them side by side it would make life much easier, but I realize that's kind of unrealistic unless I want to buy both and return one. 

Thank you @billstevenson! That’s a fantastic review and I really appreciate you sharing your experience with both brands and tables. Honestly couldn’t have hoped for better input. 

That motor cover would have to go, or at least have an “easy to remove” mod if you didn’t get the ADS. Not sure if that’s still the design…

I know the motor cover is in place with thumb screws. I did think about that. At SWAF they didn’t have the ADS in the system, and on Sunday I saw that they had the cover off so they must have been doing some switching. I would certainly plan for the ADS if I went that direction, but maybe not initially. The manual belt change is probably the most annoying part of the Model One, but I also live with that now so it’s not the end of the world. 

I do believe the Model One can take the P ring, but I’m not 100% on that though. 

I've had a 1200G for the past 4 or 5 years now and am very happy with, though I am not enamored with its appearance (mine's in silver) and I do wish it looked more like a Pure Fidelity 'table. 

Have you had any issues or just quirks with it? Curious if you were to ever upgrade what would you be looking for in a new table that the 1200G doesn’t quite offer?

Sota/RoadRunner is superior to ADS, if you're serious about VPI.

https://sotaturntables.com/products/eclipse-package/

The website is  not the greatest, but the RR is what VPI failed to implement for their products. Real time speed correction and more precise. 

My understanding is they were in talks with original designer, but no deal. SOTA purchased design.

Thank you for this. I love that it's even right around the same price. 

The only thing to check in advance is whether there is a convenient way to mount the Hall sensor on the one hand, and the magnet that the sensor senses, on the underside of the VPI platter and the top of the plinth, respectively. It’s no mean feat to get that done right; the magnet has to pass within one-eighth inch of the sensor with each rotation, at least with my older Phoenix Engineering setup. But it’s very rewarding if you can make it work. OR, you can buy a 1200G.

And this is the type of thing that makes the 1200G appealing all over again, lol 

Dang, listing ended before I even saw it. At $4k that table does become much more interesting. I wonder if that might be a sign of things to come. 

@kennyc - While I would LOVE to have an HW-40, that’s a little further than I can stretch at this point in my life. Maybe in about 10 years, but I would already be stretching for the tables in discussion. 

But your point is not lost on me. If I can find a higher end VPI in excellent condition, I’d consider it. I have seen Prime Signatures come up occasionally in the same price range as the Forever Model One. 

I am curious why you feel the 1200G or Forever Model One would be a sideways move from the Mofi UltraDeck? I’m quite surprised to hear that feedback. 

Appreciate it! Unfortunately I just put down money for a new rack. But if history has taught as anything, this may not be the last time we see these at this price. 

I am sure that the VPI under discussion here is probably a good piece of gear but for me it’s just weird to be able to change from belt to DD with the same table.

I believe the idea of converting the table to a direct drive in the future was purely speculation. I haven’t seen anything from VPI even remotely hinting at being able to do this. 
They have hinted at the future of potentially changing the motor and the table drawings on the site do show a 3 button control panel, so it’s almost certain they will have push button speed control at some point. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a key feature of Model Two or Three, whenever those comes to market. 
But converting the entire drive system to direct drive… I wouldn’t count on it. 

Appreciate that feedback. I actually demoed the GR side by side against the Mofi Ultradeck. I like to refer to that as a “buyers” demo instead of a “reviewers” demo. I asked the dealer to pick any cart he felt worked well with the GR that would put my OTD cost as close as possible to the Mofi with the Master Tracker. 

The dealer put on a great demo. I brought 3 of my own records, and he included one of his own, and he asked me to bring my phonostage so we could have a better sense of cartridge matching. I went home with the Mofi UD/MT combo, and I just recently replaced the cart with a Hana ML. 

Maybe that means I’m belt drive biased, or maybe it was the cart difference. But I’ve had the Mofi since 2018 and I’m just now seriously considering an upgrade. 

@atmasphere  so what you’re really saying is that even though the Technics is nearly impossible to demo (for me) because of their limited dealer network, a demo is effectively worthless because the pad has such a significant impact on the sound? 
 

In my mind the main selling points (for me) on the Technics was perceived reliability, and a lack of needing to tweak it. But if we’re talking about pad rolling, adhering pads to the platter, arm swapping, etc… well all of that frankly makes the VPI option more appealing because it’s built for it. 
 

That’s not something I want to do in the near future on any table, but if I end up doing it I think I’d prefer to do it on a platform that’s designed for that. 

Getting the platter pad right is something you have to do with almost every 'table made...

What about tables that don't use or require a platter pad? My mofi table, VPI tables, etc. 

Im using a VPI Superscoutmaster from many years ago ( bought new).. sold to me by Harry himself.   I upgraded the belt drive to rim drive, the platter to the solid metal one, the arm to the plastic (?) one, still using the SDS ( better than the new version) etc., etc.   I did everything myself with the guidance of VPI...never had it in for repair....just goes and goes like the energizer buddy.  Sounds great...silent but deadly.

Playing an LP at an affordable/reasonable high level shouldn't be so complicated.

A used VPI IMO, is where the real value can be found.

 Thank you both, I appreciate the feedback. 

@tablejockey I think a better way to say what I was thinking is that I can’t really know until I try at least one. 

@perazzi28 

Whichever TT you ultimately decide to purchase you may wish to consider a Dynavector 507 MkII tonearm.  

I’ve never heard or seen one of these in person, but I do love the unusual and industrial look

@billstevenson 

The first one is related to reliability.  My SL1200GAE has a frozen VTF adjuster.  This is a common problem and it is not trivial.  If people think it is difficult to get a demo, or to find a specific model to buy, try finding qualified repair technical support.

Here is my most important advice of all:  Pick your dealer first.

Thank you! This is really valuable input, and I truly appreciate it. 

All I know is that @billstevenson  makes a valid point. Doesn’t matter if Technics service is top notch in Japan, because I’m not in Japan. Doesn’t matter if the distributor should take care of it, because it sounds like they didn’t. 
Should have, would have, could have doesn’t make it any easier to actually get it fixed. As someone going through a TT fix at the moment, I do have a new found appreciation for a US based company with excellent service. And thus far, Mofi’s service has been exceptional. 
 

It also has me rethinking amp choices as I go up the chain as well. 

Looks like the price on the VPI Forever One is jumping up to $5850, so $600 above the initial release. Some dealers still have it posted at the original $5250, but that's enough of an increase to factor it in. $1500 price point between the two is significant. I still think the VPI is a long term stronger offering, but that is a big price gap. 

I'm also still curious to see where they go with the Forever Series as well. We'll see what happens as units start to show up with dealers. 

I haven’t pulled the trigger yet. We’ve got a big trip coming up in the fall so I’m going you wait until we return to pull the trigger. Plus that will be my 40th, so easier to justify spoiling myself. 

However, the more I think about it, the more I lean towards VPI. I’ve just always loved those tables, and I know that if I go with something else, I’ll probably still be wanting a VPI. It’s just that simple sometimes. 

@dayglow I’ve considered all of them. I like the current number of options and various price points. Just all comes down to finances and what’s available at the time. HW-40 would be a dream, but even at 50% below retail I think it might be beyond my financial comfort level.