I noticed that in all of these responses that no one ever mentioned anything about TacT's Super DAC card option for the 2.2 XP. For an extra $370 over their standard DAC, this card uses the same chips as used in high end external DACs thus eliminating the need for high end external DACs. It's not easy finding it at the TacT website. It is not included in the eight options for the standard 2.2 XP. I brought the oversight to the attention TacT, but so far they still have not included the Super DAC as one of the options when you buy the 2.2 XP. Instead you have to look over to the left under ADC/DAC cards (4). Think of all of the customers that would have been happier with the high end DAC card as apposed to the standard so-so DAC card. Why TacT hasn't brought this Super DAC card to attention of their customers is beyond me. |
If you use an outboard DAC after the TacT; your volume will be limited to the max voltage out of the DAC, and the sensitivity of your power amp(s). Be certain the DAC you intend to use will have sufficient output to drive your amp(s), and provide satisfying SPLs, per your listening habits. |
Horacio,
If you would like some help from long-time TacT users do a search for Yahoo Users Groups for TacT Audio and TheRealTactHackers. I would post the links here but every time I have tried it my post never passes the powers that be. I tried it again yesterday and it is the third or fourth time my post did not survive.
You CAN use an outboard DAC after TacT and use the 2.2X to adjust volume. I have done it so I am not just guessing. The fact that it is a corrected signal does not matter to the external DAC. That is not an issue. Also TacT will measure and adjust for any change in time delay.
See my cautions in a previous post on this thread. Visit the experts and good luck. |
Horacio,
Ah, I see ~ but how would you vary the analogue output from an outboard D:AC to feed your power amplifier/s? How many D:AC's are designed to drive power amplifiers directly? It's my understanding (but I may be wrong) that the digital outputs from the TacT 2.2XP are variable only for the purposes of driving one (or more) of TacT's own digital amplifiers. Results with an outboard D:AC might be very different (and possibly destructive). And how might an outboard D:AC handle a room-corrected digital signal coming from the TacT? If your speaker system comprises two main speakers and two subwoofers (as does mine), then an outboard D:AC with no crossover facilities is a non-starter.
If you're not happy with the fundamental sound quality of the TacT 2.2XP, then it might be better to remove it altogether from the equation and go for an analogue pre-amp fed from the output of the outboard D:AC followed by something like the Lyngdorf RP-1 which, as mentioned easrlier, according to most reports, seems to impose little or no sonic signature of its own on the overall character of any components upstream. The RP-1 includes a crossover too, though whether it's as adjustable as the one in the TacT 2.2XP I'm not sure.
I have been thinking about moving on from my TacT 2.2XP to a Lyngdorf RP-1, but what has held me back are the expense of having to buy a D:AC and pre-amp as well, plus the fact that the Lyngdorf doesn't offer the almost infinite fine adjustability of the TacT. If none of the preset voicings in the RP-1 is exactly what you want then, apart from downloading a few alternatives from the Lyngdorf site, there's nothing you can do about it. The result (after having shelled out a lot of money) could be that all you've done is exchange one set of good-but-not-quite-there frustrations for another. But I recently acquired a pretty good outboard D:AC (the Trichord Pulsar) for very little money and my local dealer's happy to lend me his (highly regarded) Electrocompaniet EC4.7 pre-amp. So, if I can find a used RP-1 at a moderate price, I might just give it a go. We'll see. |
Horacio,
Ah, I see ~ but how would you vary the analogue output from an outboard D:AC to feed your power amplifier/s? How many D:AC's are designed to drive power amplifiers directly? It's my understanding (but I may be wrong) that the digital outputs from the TacT 2.2XP are variable only for the purposes of driving one (or more) of TacT's own digital amplifiers. Results with an outboard D:AC might be very different (and possibly destructive). And how might an outboard D:AC handle a room-corrected digital signal coming from the TacT? If your speaker system comprises two main speakers and two subwoofers (as does mine), then an outboard D:AC with no crossover facilities is a non-starter.
If you're not happy with the fundamental sound quality of the TacT 2.2XP, then it might be better to remove it altogether from the equation and go for an analogue pre-amp fed from the output of the outboard D:AC followed by something like the Lyngdorf RP-1 which, as mentioned easrlier, according to most reports, seems to impose little or no sonic signature of its own on the overall character of any components upstream. The RP-1 includes a crossover too, though whether it's as adjustable as the one in the TacT 2.2XP I'm not sure.
I have been thinking about moving on from my TacT 2.2XP to a Lyngdorf RP-1, but what has held me back are the expense of having to buy a D:AC and pre-amp as well, plus the fact that the Lyngdorf doesn't offer the almost infinite fine adjustability of the TacT. If none of the preset voicings in the RP-1 is exactly what you want then, apart from downloading a few alternatives from the Lyngdorf site, there's nothing you can do about it. The result (after having shelled out a lot of money) could be that all you've done is exchange one set of good-but-not-quite-there frustrations for another. But I recently acquired a pretty good outboard D:AC (the Trichord Pulsar) for very little money and my local dealer's happy to lend me his (highly regarded) Electrocompaniet EC4.7 pre-amp. So, if I can find a used RP-1 at a moderate price, I might just give it a go. We'll see. |
Jools,
The option I'm contemplating is for the digital signal to be fed to the 2.2XP for it processing and from there to an outboard DAC. This assumes he outboard DAC is better than the one supplied by Tact, which I don't know to be true.
Point taken about the added resolution and hence some crappy recordings will sound crappier. I gues that's our eternal tradeoff!
Thanks!
Horacio |
Using an external D:AC with the TacT 2.2XP going into one of its analogue inputs seems an odd choice, given that all incoming signals are processed in the digital domain for the purposes of RC. I tried it with an old (but still very good) Trichord Pulsar D:AC 1 and the character of the system didn't change at all.
As mentioned previously, the 2.2XP can sound very good indeed once you finally get it tuned exactly right, though it does seem to highlight the worst of less than great recordings as much as it highlights the best of good recordings. It isn't at all forgiving and assuredly won't make your entire collection sound wonderful, hence your relationship with it can tend to be a mixture of love and hate. But, with the right recording, the right company, a glass of your favourite tipple and a fair wind, it can sound superb. Just don't expect it to sound that way with everything and anything you may play through it. |
Folks,
Thanks for the input. It has been 2 years since I posted, though, and in the meantime I got financially hurt (which delayed things) and have now chosen a different route: room treatments and a class A tube preamp. Quite a change!
I haven't yet discarded the Tact, although now I consider it as a room correction unit (on top of the room treatment) plus an outboard DAC unit. I'll revisit that down the road, when finances permit again.
Thanks anyway for the input.
Horacio |
No, I wouldn't countenance using the TacT's internal D:AC for the sub's and a separate external one for the main speakers ~ that would be awfully complicated. The 2.2XP offers a complete 2+2 system configuration with its own A:DC and D:AC, though it hasn't occurred to me to try using the digital outputs with anything other than the TacT S2150. I had an S2150 briefly, but the result was horrible distortion, apparently due to my room demanding more RC than the combination could handle. This problem may have been fixed with TacT's latest software, though I managed to sell the S2150 to someone fairly local and he's delighted with it. I wish it had worked okay here, because it's an amazingly fine amplifier without that distortion problem (I fed the digital output of my transport directly into it). Now I use a pair of Bryston 7B-SST's and a Lyngdorf SDA-2175 driving a pair of TacT/Lyngdorf sub's. Main speakers are a pair of PMC IB2's (not the latest i versions ~ I couldn't afford £9,450 for a pair of those!)
The TacT 2.2XP is a magnificent, technology-packed product that offers what must be almost unrivalled fine-tuneability, but it's also extremely tricky to get exactly right. Many have tried and failed and even now I'm only just about there. The Lyngdorf is probably easier in that regard. |
My experience is with a 2.2X not the XP so there might be some differences. If I understand your post correctly you are considering using an internal TacT DAC card for your subs and an external DAC with volume control for your main speakers. This configuration will work but not exactly as you plan. The external DAC would not act as a preamp as far as volume control because it would not control the subs at the same time.
If you use one internal DAC and one external DAC you must balance the level between the subs and mains using either the volume control on the external DAC or any volume control the sub might offer. Then leave those settings alone and use the TacT volume control to control both mains and subs simultaneously.
You will not have to balance the two volume levels exactly. Just get them within normal operating ranges with some headroom to spare. The TacT measurement and correction process will set the final relative volume levels.
Here is a possible difference between 2.2X and 2.2XP: On the 2.2X DO NOT USE the menu "digital out" for the external DAC. You might damage something. The "digital out" setting is ONLY if you use TacT digital amps and need the TacT processor to control them. Don't worry about not selecting "digital out", you will still get a digital output and volume control but it will not be at a level that might damage your external DAC or speakers. |
If you're going to be using digital sources only and don't anticipate ever using an analogue source, the purely digital version of the 2.2XP is quite a bit less expensive than the fully loaded one with analogue inputs and outputs. But, unless you use one or more of TacT's own digital power amplifiers, you'll need analogue outputs. You can specify just about any combination of digital and analogue inputs and outputs, even down to digital and analogue outputs for the main channels but digital only for the subwoofers or vice versa. All the configuration choices are displayed at TacT's website. The fully loaded version with all inputs and outputs configured for both analogue and digital is expensive ($6,800 last time I checked).
Getting it (and thus your entire system) to sound just the way you want it is no cakewalk. After six years of ownership, I'm still making occasional fine but crucial adjustments to the tonal balance. The Auto Target Curve adjustment facility has made things much easier than trying to do it by way of the 12 band parametric equaliser, which can be truly a devil's playground. Of immense assistance is the table on page 11 of the user manual for the Behringer DEQ-1024 unit (readily available online), which is a guide to the subjective effects of making changes at different frequencies.
For fine tuning of the relatively crude adjustments that can be made by way of the Auto Target Curve Adjustment facility using the parametric equaliser, my advice is to adhere religiously (with the latter) to exactly the same frequency points ~ 32Hz, 64Hz, 125Hz, 250Hz, 500Hz, 1000Hz, 2000Hz, 4000Hz, 8000Hz, 16000Hz and 20000Hz. Ignore everything else in between and select strictly a one octave spread at each frequency point. This avoids overlap. Always aim for as smooth a curve as possible. Avoid big adjustments up or down at specific frequency points. If you feel the need to make such adjustments, then you haven't got the fundamentals right.
The 2.2XP can deliver exceptionally fine results, particularly in the bass, but you need to know what you're doing to achieve an acceptable tonal balance, particularly at the top end, which can easily sound harsh and excessively 'hot'. As many reviewers have pointed out, the guidance afforded by the user manual in this respect is sorely lacking, hence the Behringer manual is such a valuable adjunct.
Alternatively, look to the Lyngdorf RP-1, which fits only between an analogue pre and power amp (or in the tape loop of an integrated amp), but it does have an adjustable electronic crossover for 2+2 system configuration. It employs Lyngdorf's proprietary RC technology (RoomPerfect) and doesn't offer anything like the same degree of fine adjustability as the TacT (just 6 factory present algorithms, though replacement alternatives can apparently be downloaded online), but some people are of the opinion that this may very well be no bad thing. The neutral setting seems to satify most users. It also offers a choice between global and hot seat correction, which the TacT doesn't. Reports elsewhere generally seem to concur that it imposes little, if any, of its own sonic signature. So if you like your system the way it is and don't want to change it beyond correcting for otherwise ineradicable untoward room interactions, the Lyngdorf RP-1 may well be a more viable alternative.
My experience of living with the Tact RCS has, I have to say, been one of love and hate, though gradually I've managed to achieve a result which is these days more generally love than hate.
One other thing ~ The TacT RCS doesn't seem at all happy powered via the PurePower 2000 mains regenerator, unless you buffer the output of the PurePower with an isolation transformer such as those made by IsoTek or Isol-8. I don't know why, but I'm pretty certain that plugging the TacT directly into the PurePower was the cause of its CPU failing a year or so back and I had to ship it from England all the way back to Albuquerque to get it fixed at no small expense. Since then, though, it's been fine.
Conclusion? Try before you buy and don't expect a quick and easy path to audio nirvana. Patience is required. |
By the way: If you do go digital in with a DAC, try the Kimber Illuminations Orchid for your AES/EBU(minimum of 1 meter). They are fairly inexpensive used. You won't regret it! |
Should have mentioned- If I were going to input anything digitally: I'd first have the "Digital Input Board Mod" done to the TacT by Aberdeen: (http://www.mauimods.com/TacTAudio.htm) Happy listening! |
My BAT VK-D5 has it's own DAC and a wonderful tubed output section that I don't want to bypass(perhaps because of the $600.00 spent on six CCa's for it). I input through the TacT's ADC with a pair of Kimber Select 1130's(fully differential). My BAT's digital out is BNC, so I haven't tried it that way(I'd have to have Kimber make a custom cable). For all I know: I could be missing something. I would suggest trying your transport directly into the TacT, then auditioning DACs to see if there is any audible improvement. |
Thanks for the replies.
Are you using the 2.2 built-in DAC for the main speakers, or do you have it connected to an outboard DAC? The configuration I envision once I'm done upgrading piecemeal would be: cd transport > 2.2 > outboard DAC > tube amp.
Your thoughts? Would I be waisting my money with the outboard DAC and additional interconnect?
As a newbee, this forum is a great learning spot. Thanks a lot! |
OH, and Mr C is correct about the configuration for your outputs(DACs for both mains and subs). Should you ever decide to add analog inputs/an ADC- It's as easy/painless as plugging a soundcard into your PC. |
The TacT 2.2 units have very little sonic signature, or I wouldn't be using one. The benefits of the room's time domain/response being corrected FAR outway any slight transparency issue. I've just installed Aberdeens latest power supply upgrade(uses Sanyo's WX series caps), and have enjoyed an excellent increase in overall dynamics as a result. I HIGHLY recommend/endorse TacT and Aberdeen! |
you need two DAC cards to output to your B&W 804's and your Sub. If you don't have any analog sources you don't need the ADC (analog in card).
As a preamp I found the tact to be good but not great, you have to replace the powersupply with an upgraded one from Maui Mods... go to Tacthackers on yahoo groups to ask these questions. |
