SUT With a Manley Steelhead RC?

I had a Steelhead before they offered remote control but after the first batch. I rolled the tubes on the audio path, using NOS Tele, Siemens and old Raytheons for the 7044. I could never get it to gel in my system, especially using the MC autoformers. I ran it wide open, at that time using a Lyra Titan I (which I think was their best then) and the original Airtight PC-1 (later upgrade to a Supreme). I added a line stage- Lamm L2 Reference, then a Veloce (which is up to date as of this writing) and eventually migrated to an entirely different room, with a number of small changes. I also changed phono stages.

One of the things I found in listening was a slight electronic glaze from the Steelhead which was a constraint to more natural, flowing analog sound. I think every person has their own biases, and their choices-assuming no price constraint- are limited by what they have heard.

The Steelhead in my estimation sounded better with a line stage than using its passive volume control. Thing is really well built, quite flexible, and Eva is a saint. 

@lewm- I love older Alfas- tried to buy the Duetto, 69 or earlier, in Italy to run the Targa Florio back in the day but prices there were higher than the US and there were few specimens for sale (the idea being I'd save on the cost of shipping a car both ways, and ship the car back to the States afterwards). Wound up renting an old dog for the event.

Veloce was a company that built battery powered electronics for a spell from the fertile mind of  Vytas Viesulas; it is no longer made. It combines what I would call aeronautics grade construction with old school (tube) design. This is the later version that uses the 6h30 and likes the old DR Reflector tube far better than the modern production. 

Here's what mine looks like with the hood under acrylic:

Nope Lamm did not make it lean, just the opposite- put more meat on the bones, though the frequency extremes were rolled off compared to the Veloce (line stage comparison). As to lacking gain, perhaps that was an issue. It was a couple of iterations ago- sonic memory is imperfect, just remember the processes I went through. The mod you did seems to make sense. I did go back to that Six Moons review- it was apparently edited after the grounding issue was sorted and some newer material added. It's been a while. 

@lewm- Yes, the Veloce unit I own is a line stage and it replaced the Lamm at the time.

I do remember the tweak/mod you described from an earlier thread here but your saved summary is helpful. I don't know the internal differences or running changes in the Steelhead.

Never had a gain issue as far as I could discern-- to me at the time, the unit sounded a little spare, lean. I remember when Six Moons reviewed the Steelhead and the writer had a grounding issue. I wrote to them at the time (dunno if the comments are still attached to the review) about how to solve it. Did have a discussion with Eva at around the same time-- she believed "less was more" by not having the additional electronics. I think it is all system interdependent. As I recall, I was running the Lamm ML2 SETs which are still my main system amplifiers. It was around this time -2013?- that Alan Sircom came to visit; we had some lovely bone in rib-eye steaks that I grilled and a few hours of listening. Alan did a nice write up in HiFi+ at the time. 

I don't think it is a dark art. @lewm will correct me if my terminology is wrong, but look up the internal impedance of the cartridge. You need the SUT to present it with a load that is 10X that number. They all "output" at 47k, which is standard MM input. That's the "step up" part.

For example, I had a couple Airtights, very low impedance and set my transformers to the closest setting of 10x their impedance. When I switched to Koetsu stones, I found a slightly higher impedance worked best. Some SUT set ups are more adjustable than others and SS stuff can be tweaked with changes in resistors or boards. (I use tubes for the phono, but the unit, an Allnic, is  adjustable with knobs on the transformers). I have an outboard SUT in my vintage system. Not a terribly expensive unit either and it's good, runs at a setting to match a Franken 103 with a MR stylus and potted into a wooden body by Steve Leung. 

The transformers themselves get attention too. There are some highly regarded older transformers- collectible, and modern high end ones like Slagle produces. 

@lewm- two comments. First, I agree that there is no absolute in matching numbers -impedance of cartridge to primary or input of SUT. I’ve experimented in each case, both on the Allnic and on the outboard unit I use in my vintage system.

Your observation that the SUT does not present a load is intriguing to me. My goal in the above statement was to demystify some of this stuff and simplify it, so it didn’t seem like a dark art. Thus, I used the terminology with a nod toward you.

I do often refer to the setting of the primary or input as the "load" the cartridge sees. I’m also reminded of the occasions where people talk about "loading down" a cartridge as opposed to running it wide open, i.e. 47kOhms.

Thus, this explanation (from a site called "hi fi for lo-lifes"-a moniker that amuses me), speaks in just such terms:

"These passive windings have ratios. These ratios operate as approximations to specify a SUT for matching with specific cartridge impedances. Standard ratios tend to be 1:20 or 1:10 (this is the “gain” usually translated to dB) but numerous ratios exist for differing cartridge specifications, and many SUTs feature multiple winding ratios to add flexibility for different carts (a 1:20 SUT may also include a setting for 1:40 windings). A general rule for MC carts is they prefer a load impedance of 3~6 times their output impedance (for example, a 20-Ohm output impedance cartridge would work well with 60~120 Ohms of input impedance). A 1:10 winding ratio means that the secondary winding has 10 times the number of turns of the primary winding, so the voltage for the secondary is roughly 10 times that of the primary. But, that’s not all the magic the transformer is performing, it is changing the resistive load the cartridge “sees” by squaring the turns ratio divided into 47,000 Ohms (this is the impedance). This translates to the cartridge “seeing” a load impedance of 470 Ohms instead of 47,000 Ohms, a number most MC carts are quite happy with."

I’m comfortable with that explanation. Tell me where I’ve gone astray- not to argue, but to inform. Ty.

@lewm No insult taken. My post about 10x sounded somewhat absolute so that was fair ground. We’re good.