SUT experience

@billstevenson  : Along all those I learned the critical importance of passive devices in the overall audio item designs, devices as  capacitors, resistors, fuses, power electrical connectors and the like. Examples are like these: all the power electrical system cables are hard wired directly to the boards/electrical path input and all those cables are made by silver material, my electronics has not any fuse at the lectrical power input ( yes, a little risky. ).

Certainly the best passive devices are not to use it but devices as capacitors or resistors almost always are need it. The speakers are directly tri-wired at the amplifiers outputs from each crossover filters. Yes all with silver wire including the ribbon silver inductors.

You can see in my Agon virtual system what I had in those learning times and in those pictures you can appreciate 3 TTs with 10 diferent tonearms ( I owned arond 20* ) and 10 diferent top cartridges ( I owned over 150. ).

Do you know how " discovery " the MM/MI cartridge quality levels? well that was in 2008 when I tested the first Essential 3150 with 4-5 MM/MI that I already owned but not used due that the corrupted AHEE teaches all of us that the name of the gaME IN CARTRIDGE WAS lomc ONES and that is totally false but to achieve the true MM/MI carrtridges quality real levels we need a very first rate MM phono stage and an excellent line stage that is what all Essential models have along a dedicated active higjh gain MC stage ( yes , the unit is SS . ). In all those and today days I never had/have to care about load cartridge impedance changes due that LOMC cartridge are not sensitive to that kind of load and in MM I work with 100koms instead 47kohms. Yes when I use the Denon 1000 SUT it looks 100kohms as load.

Nothing was or is at random and that's why I already understand your post: I lived the full experiences about. From there I learned about the experience to be seated at bnear field position in a live MUSIC events. First than aLL i'M A music LOVER and hardware is only a tool.

Btw, OMA does not have FR specs because almost no one " cares " about not only them that are sellers.

R.

Dear @billstevenson : I’m not afraid, things are that almost all what yu re-marks I already do it in the last 30+ years and I learned. Even I try sevral unortodox alternatives that in theory goes against the audiophile " rules " if any.

Things over those30+ years improved in the audio world and today I know what to do and what not to do. My time ( very large times. ) of experiment or test " things " contrary to the overall believes already past. I’m calm enjoying what I learned through all those time and a lot of spended money.

From those learning times 15 years ago came the Essential 3150 SS full phonolinepream that we designed and builded followed by the 3160 and today the Essential 3180, from those learning times came our own design and builded tonearm. Today I don't have to match any cartridge with any SUT or phono stage or tonearm, yes that good are what we builded. Today I don't buy any more any top LOMC cartridge but I already tested almost all in my system coming from my friends and about cartridges almost stay with no dramatic changes over the past but new refinements of wha we normally know. Gentlemans as mijostyn still are in that learning times on cartridges but cartridges have not the last word but the overall system chain.

Anyway thank’s for your observations.

R.

Dear @lewm  : "  VIV tonearm or Dava cartridge, I just can't " tolerate " to listen something that I know by facts measured facts that's wrong even if those generated distortions do that are wrong could be " nice " distortions. My mind works by common sense but as I said this is me. "

You are not the issue of my statement but that : "  can't " tolerate " to listen something that I know by facts measured facts that's wrong  "

that is the main subject and very personal but I remember mijostyn posted that he never buy a cartridge with lower tracking spec of 80u. That you been a VIV owner is not important in my post.

R.

and I have to say that I have mounted in my tonearm a LOMC cartridge with 0.1mv as output and even that my speakers has 95db 1 watt at 1 m. no noise at all. Noise floor of the system is extremely low.

R.

@billstevenson : " Every one of these options is wonderful and they all have distortions. Don’t let anyone try to deceive you.. "

Yes, all links in an audio home system chain develops distortions. The main issue it’s not that but the level and kind of those distortions.

Live MUSIC has its own kind of " distortions " that some of them just do not like to many audiophiles: brigthness, and sometimes even hardness and others.

Listen live MUSIC seated at near field position of the MUSIC source(s) produce some of those natural MUSIC " distortions " but with out that " near field " experiences no one can understand whaT i’M TALKING ABOUT. tHE AUDIOPHILE ADJECTIVE " WARM " ALMOST DOES NOT EXIST IN LIVE music AT NEAR FIELD and not " almost " just does not exist.

Btw, @adrianleewelch Live MUSIC is accurated and accuracy surrounded live MUSIC starting with its notes where the instrument players need to " swim " with true accuracy because MUSIC is not only notes but its accurated automatic developed harmonics and certainly it’s not sterile in anyway never/ever.

I like a lot horns in the mid/high frequency with a help of a supertweeter because is the close kind of speaker that has the immediacy only live MUSIC has.

Accuracy is not enemy of live MUSIC as a fact we need an audio system with high accuracy levels to enjoy MUSIC. Our kind sound taste is a way different history where accuracy is not a main subject.

Over the years I builded a extremely accurated room/system that sounds terrific ( well which chef speaks bad of his food ) not sterile in anyway and with that immediacy and very fast transient response and dynamic power that’s what I love in live MUSIC. Yes I’m still away of the live MUSIC " scenario " but through the time a little more close. First than all like you I’m a MUSIC lover and I don’t like to " listen " my system hardware but listen and enjoy the MUSIC.

Through more than 30 years I learned from first hand experiences and from other audiophiles and even reviewers to stay where I’m. Once by around 10 years I used tube electronics till I learned, used SUTs ( just named and I owned, even I still have the Entré you own. For many years the only trusty option were the SUTs for LOMC cartridges. ) till I learned, etc. etc. Audio life is a learning life day by day, I learned a lot of my " thousands " of mistakes but now I stay HERE and follow learning.

Btw, @billstevenson , as you I still have SUTs but not phonoline preamps due that after several years and after listened the top SS phonolinepreamps we decided ( José and I ) to design and build a unique SS phonolinepreamp named Essential 3150, then improved through the 3160 and rigth now what for us is the ultimate phonolinepreamp Essential 3180.

Yesterday we were listen MUSIC at my place and used this Denon SUT along the Essential 3180 MM stage ( it has too an active high gain MC separated stage ):

https://www.denon.jp/ja-jp/museum/products/au1000.html

btw, this unit I use hard wired with out its input/output connectors and is a formidable SUT that measured ( not by me but from an external source ) flat from 3hz to 250khz and probably the best SUT out there. How measure your made in Germany SUT?

Well, the kind and quality levels that we listenend where nothing less that amazing/outstanding MUSIC where you can’t be aware that a SUT is down there and this fact does not came by free but because the MM Essential stage is just terrific/transparent.To understand we have to live the experience to trust in what I'm posting. 

Yes, my common sense let me to arrives where I’m. My taste? well my taste is live MUSIC and what surrounded it.

R.

Dear @billstevenson  : " Who cares?  All that matters in the end is the music. "

Well that depends of your MUSIC/sound priorities. I think that putting al kind of distortions in any roomsystem at minimum gives you not only MUSIC but MUSIC that is closer to the recording and closer to the live MUSIC. This is my target, but this is me-

I respect your point but I can't agree with. That's why I don't own the VIV tonearm or Dava cartridge, I just can't " tolerate " to listen something that I know by facts measured facts that's wrong even if those generated distortions do that are wrong could be " nice " distortions. My mind works by common sense but as I said this is me.

R.

Dear @lewm  : It's obvious that you never read the Stellar review I linked where the reviewer compared it to a 30K+ phono stages.

The " raining " in the @adrianleewelch  parade is because the PS Adio is better than the Project too and way better that any SUT.

Btw, @mulveling   " SUT sounds like "music" and further differentiates vinyl’s sound away from digital. ":

I'm not against you but your statement is only what you like and not what is rigth. You like SUT's thanks to its higher developed distortions and it's not your fault. Issue is that our ears perception are way tolerant in different kind of distortions, the VIV tonearm is an example how tolerant ( it can't discriminates ) to higher distortions are the owners ears and again no fault in those owners: that's what that's, ears limitations.

R.

Dear @adrianleewelch  : " new to the SUT game and it was a game changer. "

Well, with the SUT you are adding " new " distortions that came from the additional IC input/output RCA connectors along the cable and solder joints plus the distortions developed by the SUT transformers.

Your McIntosh  unit has not high quality phono stages, it's " so so ".

Maybe could be a good alternative to own a new dedicated  phono stage as the PS Audio Stellar model that's not to expensive. You could try and maybe you can find out a true game high quality changer. Yes, you need those addituional IC to connect in the C47. This is that unit, please read it including its real time measurements:

Now, if you decide not to go with that alternative then you can improve the sound quality performance rewiring internally ( for better quality wire. ) the Entré SUT and changing all its input/output RCA connectors.

Regardas and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

r.