Supratek Owners Thread

Just ordered a Chardonnay a couple of days ago will be using a Pass XA25 amp. Was told it will take 3-4 months, if they are as good from what i have read it will be worth it.

Synergistic Research Orange (but with the caveat to go up at least 25% from spec). Audio Magic Ultimate Beeswax second (spec ok; don’t know about the Ultimate Premium because the one I had broke while trying to pull it to change its direction, and so won’t be dealing with them again). Not all aftermarket fuses are created equal, anymore than our ears or pocketbooks are (which affects the what people say they like and recommend). I’ve tried several brands/models, but not all. 

Think of the power fuse as an extension of the power cord, the last step on the way to the most important part of any electronics, the power supply. Thus, fuses can potentially do sonically much of what power cords do. Here we spend all sorts of money and time fine choosing power cords, but then leave that least link as a mass produced cheap OEM design. So things tend to gravitate toward the least common denominator (not all the power cord’s effects are lost). 

What fuse did you choose? And how did it impact the sound?

Frankly,  I have trouble imagining that a change in a fuse will improve the sound,  but there are many posts on this site in which it is so.  I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying wrap my head around it.  Nice to see another Supratek owner say that they've tried it,  hence my question...

The Chardonnay is as advertised. Very nice warm clear sound with stock tubes. And maintained that and more with the Shuguang WE6SN7 and adding an aftermarket fuse. Easily an improvement over the very good PrimaLuna Dialogue preamp with the best tubes that I used while waiting. For $2250 shipped, an excellent deal.

Anybody receive their Supratek preamps recently that care to share?

Tubes can be microphonic not the gear.

Are the pre amps microphonic ?

One more thing to add is that Mick estimates the PSU to be 18 lbs and the preamp 9 lbs (ships at 16 kg).

Thanks. Looks like I have a few things to learn about its options.

On mine that knob is on the right but it is the balance control.  The sensor is just barely sticking out the bottom in the center from the chassis.  You would have to look real close to see it which you can't from that photo. The knob in the center back is gain and the two switches are manual mute and one defeats the gain control.  

Thanks,Jack. The reason I asked is because looking at the photos Mick has posted currently on Agon, it’s not apparent: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9d477-supratek-audio-chardonnay-tube#&gid=1&pid=2. Does what you have, assuming you do, look different? And btw, what’s that knob on the top left in front of the tube do, if it’s still there?

Front center.

Thanks. One more question about that: where is the remote sensor located on the main unit?

Has anyone tried Grant Fidelity's Treasure Globe 6SN7-SE?

Gene

Per Mick

Both units measure 340x 340x 175 mm or 13.5x 13.5 x 7 inches

My Chardonnay is on the way. In the meantime, I need to make a quick decision about isolation. Would someone with a Chardonnay mind messaging me the dimensions (LxDxH, including tubes) of each of the pieces? Thanks,

Gene

Here’s Mick’s answer to the difference between Chardonnay and Cabernet, dual DHT/6SN7 option aside:

As you know the law of diminishing returns applies here, its a bit hard to describe difference, but I’d say the Cabernets are just more pleasing , they have a bit more magic, stuff you don’t exactly “hear” but very satisfying. I’m very proud of the Chardonnay, because it sounds so good, and snubs its nose at the rip off prices of some of the junk out there. Its a simple uncomplicated design that delivers. The Cabernet is a little more complex that delivers a bit more, but is still very competitive price. I guess it comes down to want you want to spend, but you will be happy with either of them.

What kind does Mick normally ship his amps with?

Get the WE 6SN7 Plus, an updated tube with better parts and sounds amazing...

Wig 

How many 6SN7 tubes are in the Cortese?
I am waiting for the delivery of the Cortese and thinking about ordering Shugang WE6SN7 tubes meanwhile.
Do you know the difference between  WE6SN7 and  WE6SN7 Plus?

HighStream,  that was my impression from Mick.   That this new circuit really narrows that gap between components and really just makes the perceived change in components just different not necessarily better.

Shibui,..   I would imagine that the only tube you should pull is the Rectifier which will sever the B+ voltage and reduce the risk of a short when trying to measure.    If you measuring the heater voltage,  all the tubes in that circuit need to stay in place to provide the 'running load' to the transformer.   When you start removing tubes,  the load changes and the heater voltage will start to vary a bit, increase.   Best to talk with Mick again if you have not though.

Tubes,.. all the way.  Only SS component currently in is the hybrid PSA-BHK Pre, soon to be replaced with the new Grange beast that Mick is looking to put back 'on-line'.    Will have a  DHT and 6sn7 circuit that can be flipped between along with the LCR phono.  He briefly mentions it in his latest blog post.  Due ~April/May,..  Amp wise I switch between a Decware SE84UFO 25th Anniv.  and Gerus 300B.   Never personally cared for the sound of SS or PP tube circuits.

Any of you guys using solid state Power amps with your Supratek pre’s ?

Thanks jslateiv.
Well, there was a lot that I didn't understand about the Supratek models. And, some of the things I thought I knew were wrong. Like the fact that all Cortese models have a phono stage. In any event, you answered my questions very well. Very much appreciated.

I got the same response from Mick. If you look at the reviews from roughly 15 years ago, there’s one that compared the two and found the Cabernet, or whatever it was called then, to be significantly more of the same. So I wonder what’s changed, and if Mick’s answer is a way of saying the differences have considerably narrowed over years.

Hey Bob,   I have Mick making me a Pre as we speak (or in que at least, lol).   All Cortese models are Phono integrated pre's.  The price difference ($4K / $7K) is whether or not the phono is a standard CR or the more expensive LCR version and the $500 difference between those is whether or not the chasis is Copper/Chrome or Steel.   Having the phono (Cortese) is not going to make a difference in heat vs a Chardonnay,  it will be negligible.  The phono tubes are rated at ~10k hours as well so they will most likely outlive all the other tubes in use too.   If you don't need the phono section though, then you need to look at the Chardonnay or Cabernet.  After discussion with Mick,  I was led to believe that the difference between the 2 is in the capacitors and iron (transformers/chokes) in use, the circuit is pretty much the same.   The power supply I believe is pretty much the same as well except the Chardonnay has the Tube Regulators located on the preamp box (PS box has just the rectifer)  and the Cabernet has the Regulators located on PS box (3 tubes).   Biggest difference being the audio circuit components.  He told me that the Cabernet, even with some more exp. componets is not necessarily better per-se, but a little different. Possibly a bit more nuanced I guess.  Mick will tell you that all the magic is in the circuit design not fancy components, although he does use quality and nice components even in his cheapest builds.   Hope this helps!  

Hi All,I have a simple question for my more techno-proficient co-owners that I am posting here as it is night in Oz and Mick ergo asleep:My Cab Duo left channel 101D is carrying too much heater current and Mick has asked me to measure it accurately (as my early model has pots for adjusting heater voltage), which leads to my question:I have removed the rectifier tube per his instructions to remove the HT high ac risk. Do all the other tubes need to remain in place minus the 101D being checked in order to test the heater current accurately?Thanks
(Promise more info on my kit later)

Thanks highstream.

Yes, you're right, I was looking at the preamps with the chrome finished top plate. They seem too beautiful to resist.
Bob

My understanding is that the difference between the Chardonnay and Cabernet is not just the complexity of the power supplies, but in the quality (or price) of the components used within both sections, i.e., the kind that make a difference in sound quality. How much more than that is involved, I don't know.

Btw, the prices you are quoting are for the more expensive cabinetry/finish (+ shipping presumably to the States, another $250).

jackd, I just noticed that you've only had your Chardonnay for a month or two. So, it's obviously a Gen 3.
Bob

Thanks jackd for your response. It's great to hear that your Chardonnay is doing everything you want. Is it the Gen 3 Chardonnay?

The Cortese is available as a line stage only ($4K) or with a built in phono stage ($7.5K). I'm not interested in having an on board phono stage since the phono tubes are always being consumed whether or not they're being used, and due to the additional heat generated. So, are you suggesting the Cortese isn't in the mix because it's not as good sounding as a line stage as the other options? Or is it something else?
Bob

If you don't need the phono stage then the Cortese isn't in the mix.  The difference between the Chardonnay, which I own, and the Cabernet seems to be mostly in the power supply.  For now I see the Chardonnay as being my final preamp. I have enough "top level" NOS tubes for it to last for decades.  

Hi Guys,
I've been following this thread and investigating the Supratek line stage preamps. I've also reviewed some of the great information Mick has posted in his blog entries. It seems that there are a lot of satisfied owners of these preamps. But, when it comes to picking between the Chardonnay, Cabernet, and Cortese, which is the right choice, and why? I know they all look great, and are all Gen 3 designs. Price wise they range from $2500 to $4000. So, the price differences are not all that huge. It's not like one is $2500 and the next one is $10k. Can anyone provide some insight in choosing one over the other? Thanks very much.
Bob

The Sauvignon is not a current model, at least per the website. I noticed the older (early) one being sold by Echo Audio in the States, but Mick said the cost of bringing it up to date + shipping would be more than the cost of a new Cabernet, which is the model that I think replaced it. I’ve got an order in for a Chardonnay, but am still mulling over switching it. If I were to, it seems like the Cab single is not worth it unless one lives nearby.

I am considering purchasing a used Supratek Sauvignon to use with my Pass XA-25. Any comments, suggestions?

Here's my two cents from owning the Chardonnay for a little over a month and the BHK for over two years plus having several friends that have owned the Micro-Zotl preamps. First from every report I have heard from owners I know the LTA is on the cooler side of neutral.  In my system using the BHK amp the Chardonnay has easily beaten the BHK preamp in terms of tone and sound staging from the time it came out of the box.  If someone is having a problem with the Supratek preamps in terms of "drive" then they need to check the rake angle on their speakers and turn the gain on the preamp up.  My BHK preamp is going up for sale as no matter how good it is it can't keep up with the Chardonnay and I can only imagine what the Cabernet would bring to the table.  

The thread was at head-fi and the response I got about where the LTA Microzotl preamps stand on a cool-to-warm continuum were either clearly "neutral" or hard to decipher (pg 7-8):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/microzotl-3-by-linear-tube-audio-true-high-end-audio.895908/page-7

Here’s the message I got re the Cabernet, and it was a dual:
"I did like it quite a lot but have returned to my PS Audio BHK Reference. Both are really good but the BHK has better dynamics and immediacy... in my system."

I have a a Chardonnay on order, but have not heard either company’s gear. What I do know is what others have said: 1) Supratek is tonally on the warm side, Microzotl is definitely “neutral” (I’ll look up the forum link later); and 2) Someone with a BHK recently bought a current Cabernet used and ended up selling it in short order, saying privately to me that the BHK had better dynamics in his system. I think that Cabernet was the standard, not the dual. What I don’t know (or recall) is to what degree he had rolled tubes on either, which could have affected his results.

Thinking about replacing my PS Audio BHK Signature preamp and I'm looking at 2 units, the Supratek Cabernet 6SN7 and the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp. Has anyone had a chance to listen to either of the two preamps? Thank you.

Scot 

Hi Markthenaimnut,

Synergistic research recently came out with a new line on speakerwire, interconnect and phono cables called "foundation" that are very reasonably priced (especially for them) because as you probably know, some of their stuff can be insanely expensive. The affordable price is attractive but the performance is what's so special. A close friend on mine owns a stereo store in Morton Grove Il and I stopped in to say hello. While I was there I noticed a box of Synergistic interconnect on the desk and asked him if he picked up a new line of wire. He informed me that he did and was now a dealer. When I asked him how much he liked it, he said that he liked it so much that he had to be careful when demoing it because when compared to more expensive wire it usually sounded better which would make him less profit. He said that for the money it was really good. He sells Kubala Sosna, Cardas and Nordost. You may want to try it. I think a 12 foot pair terminated with either spades or banana's sells for $929.00. Now I realize that's still a lot of money but compared to some other wires out there that's not too bad. I've also Had good luck with Kimber Kable model 12TC. Good luck.  

@ironsienna How old was your version of the Chardonnay and what differences did you hear going to the Sauvignon, with speakers that is, as I don't use headphones? When I asked, Mick described them as different, depending on one's tastes, without being specific. I would imagine the Sauvignon improves on some things, such as soundstage and refinement, but the "different" is what I'm curious about. Thanks,

ironsienna , if you want to sell those black glass Tung-Sol 6SN7's send me a note. 

That is some listening room :-) enjoy your music.

Hello to everyone in this thread! Just my 2 cents about tube rolling. I am a proud owner of a Chardonnay/Sauvignon (upgraded Chardonnay to Sauvignon with custom headphone output) pre and a pair of Malbec mono-blocks for about 14 years. I have been through various 6SN7 tubes, from rare NOS (round hole) 1578 to Sylvania NOS, Tung - Sol, anything, you name it, I have always come back to the original EH 6sn7 that came with my pre (not the golden pin ones). Each tube had its own positive traits but there was always something special that I was getting with the stock ones. For example I had the best transparency and bass from the 1578 but they didn’t have the mid range magic that I was getting from the standard EH. I have been using the preamp connected to a Weiss MEDEA+ using Kimber Kable 1036 interconnects. I use EL34 for my amps (again the stock ones) and my speakers are the original Tidal Piano. By the way, I am still using the stock rectifier tubes. Everything works just fine after thousands of hours of enjoyment.

I have been using this system for many years without any need to upgrade to something more expensive. I also have got over my tube rolling compulsion, partly due to how good the system sounds with stock tubes and partly due to the gain/feedback combinations of the system. My Malbecs have variable negative/positive feedbacks. If I want different sound signature I can achieve it by changing the feedback levels of the Malbecs and the gain on my preamplifier. This way you can have a relaxing sound (two scales of negative feedback, no positive and low gain on the pre) that extends from the rear walls to the front of the speakers, or a more in-your-face, punchy sound (one scale or no negative feedback, a bit of positive feedback and higher gain from the pre) that sounds as if it is coming in front of the speakers. Or increase both positive and negative to the point that the amps sound almost like solid state. I am using EL34 for the amplifiers. I am using the system in a huge room, but still the bass I get is good: deep, punchy and refined.

This coming year I will also start experimenting with LP playback as I have bought a couple of thousand LPs through the years and still I haven’t got a record player to enjoy them! Of course, the phono will be from Supratek. I wish to everyone here a happy new year full of music enjoyment!

https://adobe.ly/36cOecJ

@dentdog et al How has your tube rolling gone? Which of the Sylvania chrome domes did you try? Came across a head-fi thread that says you have to be careful with the GTA and GTB models - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/. Not sure what to make of it re the Chardonnay, which I have on order. Also note in one post he says the term chrome dome is incorrectly used for some models now. There are also some 6SN7 reviews/shoot-outs posted (see below). Looking around the Grant Fidelity/Psvane site, they found the Shuguang WE version and the Psvane one’s to be very close. One pays more for the better versions partly because of the warranty but also because they are found to be the best of the best, upper 10%. Same type of thing that Upscale Audio does. The ones costing less at eBay or Chinese store sites are made out to be part of the rest. Don’t know if the latter is true, as it may be a matter of luck of the draw, or maybe the stores are just not getting the cream of the crop. But then there’s the WE Plus version with the carbon fiber coating that’s been lauded. Lots of choices, and some not necessarily dear.

- http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html
- http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html (follow up) -- the CV-181 is a misnamed 6SN7
- http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/6sn7_vt.htm

Cool story. 

Was walking around fortune town mall in BKK when I stepped into a non assuming shop and was shocked to see a full Supratek setup, owner said it was a ten anniversary models, pre with two mono blocks playing on some cabasse speakers, what a sound, was invited to listen for over an hour before I had to go to other appointment, some of the best sound I have ever heard, the owner offered me the setup for a very reasonable price, if I had a house in Thailand, I would have bought the amps on the spot.
the owner was unbelievable friendly and knowledgeable, he put on a lot of great music, from jazz to classical and everything sounded sublime, very realistic and also very impressive bass, the speakers he said was about 89db, not a brand I know much about but they sounded bigger than they looked, 2 x 6 inch drivers, seamed to go very low when necessary.
i never thought I would have the opportunity to listen to Supratek amps, without and before buying them unseen/heard, but now I hope some day to own the brand, also I think they look better in real than on websites.
all in all, an unexpected and wonderful experience. A big thanks to the owner for the good conversation and listening session, a pleasure indeed.

mr_slate -

Yah, I think we all get the same feeling of satisfaction with our gear from Mick. For me, simply speaking, it's virtually life changing. Music just sounds so GOOD. Addicting. It draws me in so deep. And with Spotify broadening my horizons and exposing me to artists I haven't heard before I keep falling in love with the music all over again. And again.
You used the words Glorious, Huge sound stage, across the front wall depth, Rightness and Weight.
Yeah. Yeah! It has raised the bar for me. My new standard for how a system should sound is simply that it should sound IN-CRED-IBLE. If the music doesn't blow your mind (speaking to the notional beginner) then your system isn't at the *right* level yet. Although I DO realize that for all of us, it's a journey.
I recently got a new dac, and now I find myself listening more and more and more and more and streaming and playing cd's and vinyl and, and...
Sorry. Got carried away a bit. Just 'cause I'm sittin' here listening and it's sounding SO GOOD.

Hi there Supratek owners and interested parties!

I received my Cortese LCR gen 3 back in the fall. So far it's still running the stock tubes that Mick installed - probably around 150 hours on it. I thought I'd just let it run a few hundred hours before I started swapping tubes. If I was going to use one word to describe it "stunning" seems appropriate.

I've had a few other changes with the latest being a new Grado Aeon 3 MI cartridge installed over the weekend. I was running the Grado Statement v2 which was really wonderful - the Aeon 3 is noticeably better. In a word glorious! Huge sound stage across the front wall with depth, air and a seemingly "rightness" and "weight" to it.

The change in my system with the addition of the Cortese and Aeon weren't cheap and while I try not to think about - it is easily the very best audio I've heard - anywhere. Of course YMMV....

In a way if that's the goal then maybe the additions were a good value. At least I like to think of it that way....  :-o
I put together some pics of my virtual system for those interested.
Have a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year!