@willemj - It is entirely possible that scott69 would be fine with a laptop transport. It entirely depends on your sound quality threshold and whether or not you can hear the difference in your system. With the very warm sounding B&K amp, it may not be apparent. However, I'm just documenting that there is definitely a difference between laptop / desktop / dedicated-transport. For example, I have the following transports: Dell laptop with upgraded high capacity power adapter - USB output. Asus bargain basement desktop - USB output Asus bargain basement desktop - Xonar Essence COAX digital output Through listening tests, the Asus desktop USB was superior to the laptop USB. The audio from the laptop USB just sounded weak without power and impact, and also has somewhat of a dirty grain to the sound. In comparison, the Xonar Essence digital coax output sounded much better than the Asus motherboard USB output. I was using a custom made USB cable with 24awg solid-core OCC copper conductors and with the USB power wire removed. I'm sure I could improve things by putting in something like this: http://www.pinkfaun.com/index.php/products/streaming-audio/pink-faun-spdif-bridge.html The Pink Faun card uses a massive capacitor power supply array to further filter and smooth the voltage coming from the computer switching power supply. The SOTM USB card uses a similar approach by routing the voltage through several regulated/filtered sections. Or you can improve things by upgrading the computer with a Teradak Computer Linear Power Supply (which I will probably do next year). Probably the only thing I agree with you on is that the Oppo 205 would be a good recommendation for a disc player / DAC. Yes, he could connect this directly to the B&K amp and it would sound very nice. Put an upgraded linear power supply in the Oppo and it will be a force to be reckoned with. However, scott69 also has a radio tuner. This will require some type of preamp or integrated amp because the Oppo does not have an analog input. If scott69 wants to stream from Spotify or Tidal or something else, he will still need to get a streamer (though he may not need/want this). |
Yes, willemj, I failed to consider the sensitivity issue between older amps and newer digital sources. |
As for laptops: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2013/04/measurements-laptop-audio-survey-apple.htmlTheir inbuilt DACs are mostly evil, but as a usb source they are fine. The biggest issue with desktop PCs is their fan noise, although here the new generation of small Intel Nuc computers in fanless cases can be a good option, as would be a Raspberry Pi if it is just for the music playing: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2017/01/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-as-usb.htmlFor the OP, I think his best bet is to get a Chromecast Audio for a few dozen dollars, connect it to the analogue input of his current system, and experiment with streaming services to see if he likes this way of listening. If he does, and only then, it is time to think about the electronics. I would go for a DAC with multiple digital inputs and variable output (e.g. the Pioneer U-05 or the Benchmark DAC 3), using a Chromecast Audio and its digital output as a streamer (and also the digital outputs of the television and the disc player). If video is important, an Oppo 205 will do the same job of DAC and preamplifier and will also play cd's. Plus a beefy solid state power amplifier. With the Chromecast Audio there is one thing to consider if using the analogue output. You can choose between a Normal and a High Dynamic Range setting. You would think more dynamic range is always better, but the snag is that this is actually not a dynamic range setting, whatever the misleading title. The difference is just the output voltage, with HDR equal to the 2V Red Book Standard. If your rca line input is for 2V, choose this one, but many analogue inputs are more sensitive, in which case you get a cleaner less clipped sound with the lower output setting. By the way, this sensitivity matching problem is also an issue with many cd players that should have the 2V output, but are often even hotter. If your amplifier has the traditional more sensitive inputs, you get clipping distortion, which contrary to what you may expect is quite common, and may in part explain the reticence about ’digital sound’. A telltale sign is if you do not have to turn up the volume very far to get a loud signal. The solution is simple: insert an inline attenuator or an attenuation cable. |
Well, you could load all your CDs onto your computer as full rez files(wav, AIFF, Flac) and not have need for a disc player. Course if your like me and sometimes also wish to spin a disc then you would need the player. There are players that allow access to there internal DAC via coax and/or optical. Would ned a USB?SPDIF converter to link computer to it. I feed my MAC computer and a disc player to a DAC that can accommodate both. I sometimes listen to public radio via FM in my living room system which is also used to augment video. I am currently using a tube pre into a SS amp, however have also used a Vincent and a Pathos integrated, both tube/SS hybrids. If the DAC has the required inputs to accommodate all your digital needs the integrated need not have too many inputs. And, as willemj stated you can run a DAC/Pre directly into an amplifier. Most of them can be set for either fixed or variable volume. You could focus on the digital source issue now by using one of them into your B&K amp and delay decision on amplification until that has been thught through.
Sooo many roads... Good luck in your travels.
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I think dedicated network players are going the way of the Dodo, just as dedicated wordprocessors once did (remember those?). After all, each time a new service is introduced, either the service provider or the player manufacturer will have to develop a new app, and that for many services and many players. The same was true for smart tv’s or disc players with streaming abilities. It is just not a viable business model, and as a user you are stuck in a dead end street.
The alternative is either using a pc of one kind or another, with its universal browser (the Raspberry Pi is very popular for this, but any laptop will be just fine), or streamers by market leaders like Google (Chromecast) or Apple (Airport Express).
Yes, this is somewhat correct. But there are other things to think about than just "keeping up with the technology". Sound quality is a huge consideration. I understand that those measurement results of the Chromecast show very low distortion, but measurements don’t always show things like sonic signature, jitter / clock accuracy, switching-power supply interference, etc. I have used the Amazon FireTV as a streamer device (which is very similar to Chromecast, Apple TV, etc). The audio quality through HDMI was actually worse than my cheap old Sony bluray player (not to mention an Oppo player). Video streaming had it’s own problems as the FireTV could not successfully transmit video without frame jerks (such as 30fps or 60i or 24p). The Sony and Oppo players were significantly better as transports for streaming both audio and video. Laptops really do not make good transports as the USB (or even HDMI if a laptop has it) will not have good power supplies or localized USB circuits. USB Reclockers (like Wyred 4 Sound Recovery) can help, but it's still not optimum. Desktop computers can be better if you have good USB or SPDIF cards (such as SOTM, Xonar Essence, Pink Faun, etc.). But they still are not as good of a transport as a dedicated network player with proper SPDIF/USB/i2s interfacing and good power supplies and digital clocks. In the end, it really depends where you want to put your money. |
So the tuner is your only analogue source (you could use the digital output of the cd player). If you change to internet radio you will not need a single analogue input anymore, which greatly simplifies your choice. Comparing the sound quality of FM radio and internet radio is not easy because they each have their own specific weaknesses, but by and large I think most internet radio stations now have at least as good a SQ as FM radio, if not better. And the range you can choose from is virtually unlimited. We now use the TuneIn app for the Chromecast, and we could not be happier.
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Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I'll spend some time to digest all the information. To clarify for mesch, I have a CD player, lots of CDs, a radio tuner and numerous files (MP3 and I tunes). Scott
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However, many DACs now have a variable output (and some, like the Marantz and Benchmark units that I mentioned even have an analogue input). With these, all you need is a power amplifier. Personally, I don't use any analogue sources anymore now that the SQ of internet radio has come to equate or often surpass that of FM radio.
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One can stream from a computer to a DAC. Could you elaborate more on what music sources you will be using? Do you own CDs or LPs? Are looking to download hirez files or just streaming internet radio?
With your stated budget I would look for a integrated amplifier and a separate DAC. An integrated amp will have a much longer 'shelf life' than any digital front end component. |
I think dedicated network players are going the way of the Dodo, just as dedicated wordprocessors once did (remember those?). After all, each time a new service is introduced, either the service provider or the player manufacturer will have to develop a new app, and that for many services and many players. The same was true for smart tv’s or disc players with streaming abilities. It is just not a viable business model, and as a user you are stuck in a dead end street. The alternative is either using a pc of one kind or another, with its universal browser (the Raspberry Pi is very popular for this, but any laptop will be just fine), or streamers by market leaders like Google (Chromecast) or Apple (Airport Express). The beauty of these units is that they have such a massive market penetration that no streaming servce can afford not to develop an app for them, and you can connect them to your existing high end stereo system. Both the Chromecast and the Airport Express have good internal DACs that will not be out of place in pretty good systems, but if you want something better they also have digital outputs. See here for a test of the Chromecast: http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2016/02/measurements-google-chromecast-audio.htmlhttp://archimago.blogspot.nl/2016/02/measurements-google-chromecast-audio_27.htmlAnd here for one of the Airport Express: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htmI prefer the Chromecast because once it is connected it no longer needs your smartphone, saving its battery. It can handle 24/96 files, and with BubbleUPnP it can also connect to a hard drive on a computer. And the good news is that they cost next to nothing, so you can experiment without investing serious money. Of course there are plenty of good modern amplifiers to choose from, also with inbuilt DACs. Even a cheap 2x100 watt Yamaha RN 803d receiver with digital inputs, Airplay and dlna is perfectly fine for anything other than inefficient speakers in large rooms. It even has a room eq system built in. There are now quite a few DACs with variable output (e.g. Pioneer U-05, Marantz HD DAC1, Benchmark DAC3, to name just a few that are more or less in your price bracket). Alternatively, and if you like playing audio and video discs, the Oppo UDP 205 4k disc player can also serve as a first rate pre amplifier with digital inputs for e.g. a Chromecast, and inbuilt high quaity DAC. Add a beefy power amplifier and you are done. The Benchmark AHB2 measures exceptionally well, with exceptionally low noise and distortion, but even a cheap 2x350 watt Yamaha P3500s pro audio amplifier is as good as many audiophile products: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p3500s-mise-a-jour-t30056383.html I recently bought the 2x250 watt P2500s for my son, and I cannot be happier. |
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Creek Evo with the Ruby DAC module will actually answer your question and sounds very good
50 W or 100 W amps depending on your choice
that will leave some $$ for the streaming unit |
here ya go.... excellent amplifer, excellent analog preamp, and streaming dac. swiss built, like a tank. the darTZeel LHC-208 http://www.dartzeel.com/lhc-208/?lang=en not under $3k. more like $15k. but it’s the real deal and still a great buy. and that is list price, so maybe the dealer can save you some dollars. I’ve spent quite a bit of time with this unit. it is not compromised in performance. and you can even input a vinyl front end into it. you only need speaker cables and one rack spot. so that does save a few bucks. |
