Mrtennis, to my ear the influence of the Opamps supercedes that of the tube rolling.
I'm checking on the SS/tube output question. |
At the moment I'm not using anything exotic, just the stock 12AU7 tube. The reason is that for testing Opamps I felt it would be far more beneficial to use the stock unit's tube as opposed to an alternative. If I use the stock unit in testing Opamps the results are applicable universally, versus for a subset of those who roll tubes.
I've got a couple others but no time now to work with them post-Opamp rolling. |
Njs, the change in sound is fundamental, sweeping, an improvement in every parameter you wish to judge it, imo. When I first put them in and fired up the system I was expecting a marginal change. The difference was SO radical that in the first few seconds the disconnect between what I expected and heard had me thinking, "There's something wrong!" But after a few more seconds I became aware that my expectations had been dramatically surpassed, and realized that the performance parameters had been improved beyond my expectations. I have been highly motivated to have long listening sessions with this change, and have found no area which I would consider the difference to be worse than the original Opamp.
I am sure there will be some systems where this Opamp change will not be to the liking of the owner. I believe that will be rare since the improvements are to my ear across the board.
Mechans, I'm sure there are dozens to hundreds of variables involved in making such a design as a DAC or amp. A designer, and even a design team, has limited intellectual resources. They make a model of what sounds good, finalize it and sell it. The community has forever and vastly more resources to futz with the unit afterwards. I would not discount the work of designers because of those realities.
One can always determine at what quality level they feel the work of a designer/manufacturer is worth spending the money on. This experience opens my eyes to the fact that if Opamps were not soldered into most components likely a great number of them could be improved similarly. You and I both know there's a whole lot more going on that an $8 switch in a component. I recall buying the upsampler board for the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 and installing it. However, I believe the Opamp rolling of the EE DAC yields a proportionately larger change in sound. What was really shocking to me was the influence of the Opamps on the performance. That in no way discounts or diminishes the rest of the design. But it certainly does make me wonder if a different component might be a lot better if it had socketed Opamps to experiment!
Kijanki, "Amazing" is certainly a word that comes to mind in thinking about the influence of Opamps. I simply had no clue how sweeping their influence could be.
An aside regarding the tendency of people to dump more expensive upgrades for cheaper ones:
I'm certain people will be effusive in praise for the upgraded Maggie 3.7, the Kingsound King III (and many other marvelous new designs appearing at CES/T.H.E. Show), which I'm sure are lovely improvements over the previous designs. Here is a change which yields a profound difference for under $20. The great joy is that it's cheap, potent and marvelous sounding, imo - one of the most impressive tweaks I have ever experienced. But I'm not saying that it's a means of avoiding other upgrades in the system. It's economical thinking to say, "I'll do the Opamp thing instead of the speaker upgrade..." But that's not the way to build one's best system, nor to obtain the best listening experience. To obtain optimum results I would do efficacious tweaks as well as major upgrades.
I have found that one must pursue changes to every element of the system and thriftiness will ultimately not be paramount in every decision to upgrade if one's goal is building the ultimate system to one's taste. Even the most proportionately economical products rise in price substantially when they are an assault on the best sound attainable. In my experience at some point serious dollars (in the tens of thousands) must be spent to obtain a system that has any chance of being in the realm of SOTA. So, a person can do this tweak and call it quits, but I'm not saying here that it will nullify the need to pursue other changes/upgrades. |
Tgrisham, yup, that's the EE DAC, with the tubed output. Chris at Clarity Cable said he prefers the SS output with the opamp change, and with the volume control full tilt i agree. But I like the tubed output better under specific conditions delineated just below. You can use either with the opamp change.
I have been varying the EE DAC's output as it very subtly influences the interplay between it and the VAC Signature MkII Preamplifier. I have been working with the DAC's volume control anywhere between 1 O'Clock and 5 O'Clock on the dial. I find the use of an additional quality preamp exhilirating, and experimentation has to my ears shown that interplay between the two volume control settings can yield a preferable result to simply taking the DAC full tilt into the preamp.
Regarding the efficacy of the Opamp rolling compared to the stock unit, the upgraded opamps easily outperform both the SS and tubed function of the stock unit, imo.
Jdec, I'm not sure of the reason precisely for the difference in the two opamps for the upgrade. I believe it has to do with the different circuits for the tubed and SS operation. I would not want to speculate further than that; Chris at Clarity Cable told me precisely which Opamps and which locations to place them. He did say that one set of Opamps runs with the tube and the other SS.
I did not try reversing them, and would not advise it unless Chris or another expert gave the ok. I certainly do not want to lead people astray on the tweak. As Bill from Morningstar Audio said, if you mess with the unit you void the warranty. So, I certainly would not stray from the explicit instructions given by a pro like Chris. |
Welcome to the sunny side of the street? Come now, you're being MODest; please share. :) |
Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. Glad you are enjoying the upgrade.
But there's more to come; watch for another Audio Blast article. It gets better, much better.
In its stock form the Minimax has been well received, including one Product of the Year award. Yet, even reviewers do not know the potential of this DAC. I've been able to take it far past the normal operation and will share my experiences.
This DAC is very special. :) |
Njs, Wow, I'm in the lead early on! But don't worry, someone will post/write a hyperbolic, way over the top declaration which will far surpass mine. I'm glad some people are finding I'm not overstating the cause for excitement.
Part of the "teaser" issue is that this project stretched out over time more than I thought it would. Initially I thought it would be one article, one experience. However, it's been developing into a more comprehensive study of the effects of Opamps, so I'm keeping interest alive until all the parts of the Audio Blast are in place. It would be a shame to have what I consider a breakthrough and have it sit unnoticed.
I haven't thought much about writing for an audiophile print magazine. Perhaps I should start one. ;) |
Njs, you are right on the money with your answer. I received the reply from Alex Yeung, designer of the Minimax DAC, and you have it right.
One set of Opamps are always used regardless of output SS/tube. The other set of Opamps is only used with SS output. In my testing I heard what I felt were clear distinctions with different Opamps using the tube output but I did not want to comment definitively until the question was answered, providing verification.
Yes, it is certainly an acceptable choice to run the unit in SS output and with the upgraded Opamps it is quite refined. |
Mrtennis, yes, there are many Opamps for this unit; I tested approx. ten custom Opamps in multiple configurations. There are literally dozens of configurations possible.
I'm afraid I can't recommend any of the pairings which do what you are seeking. If I understand you correctly, you want the unit to be less transparent, a bit rolled off, and more "syrupy" for better lack of words; as you say more tube-like. Perhaps your ideal would be for it to sound more like Van Alstine had made it.
None of the upgrade Opamps do that. They all increase detail and transparency, some quite dramatically. Some are more tube-like, but if your goal is to veil the DAC more then I'd stick with the stock unit. The upgraded Opamps will open up the soundstage, increase detail and clarity, etc.
So, in your situation you may want to stick with tube rolling and try different digital cables as they also will lend an important influence on how mellow the DAC sounds.
I have sumitted a chart of all the Opamps and my findings with the article. I do discuss the pairings which I find of special interest.
I'll say a word here so that people who may be interested in the Opamp upgrade will be able to determine if it's something they will want to seek. I'm sure there are others who will share the musical taste held by Mrtennis, and it's possible that if they do the upgrade and hear an increased detail/transparency they might be disappointed. Therefore, I'll share a bit about my views regarding this subject, not to be contraditory to Mrtennis, but so that people can deternmine if it is an upgrade they would like.
My experience and development of personal biases regarding sound is to never limit detail, transparency, soundstage depth/width and resolution. I have found that when I sense a problem with these areas of sound reproduction the problem is not them - it's usually tonality, likely in the form of shrillness or etched treble. I will not accept a trade off between proper warmth to the system and extremely high detail/definition. I find that systems without a high degree of detail/definition are not very convincing as reproducers of live music. With higher detail I find that the music is smoother, more refined as opposed to more "choppy" or rough.
Consequently, I will always seek a higher level of the aforementioned characteristics in sound, as well as not sacrifice what is to my ear appropriate warmth/richness tonally. I feel the Opamp upgrades allow for both objectives to be met. I do not feel that there needs to be a trade off ultimately in terms of tonality vs. detail. Perhaps this will help persons determine if the upgrade is something they want to pursue. :) |
Njs, et. al., I'm not trying to hold up the process; the article has been submitted for publication but has to go through a process which takes some time. Yes, these will be available to all and I provide the info to obtain them. :) |
