Subwoofer and Von Schweikert 4 series

Blindjim is correct. If you have a good, neutral speaker, high quality electronics will provide an amazing improvement in performance. But great speakers with a modest quality front end will not measure up.

More on point, when I heard the VR-4 Gen III SEs, with a Resolution Audio CDP and Berning ZH-270 amp, I was VERY impressed with the bass response.

Although the VSA 4 series speakers have a well controlled bass extension, I don't think you should automatically rule out adding on a subwoofer or two. I've heard many real full range speakers and how much a good subwoofer can add to the dynamics of the music and movies. I've even seen a person on audiogon who owns a top of the line Wilson X-2 Alexandria and has added a Wilson XS subwoofers to them. (The Alexandrias by themselves go down to a clean and loud 18Hz I believe)

I heard the Revel Salon speakers with and without the Ultima 30 sub and the difference was significant on some music pieces, and the impact was clearly better while watching movies.

If you're not satisfied with the bass of VSA 4 series speakers, which I'm sure most of you are quite satisfied with, try adding a subwoofer or two. But make sure it's a high quality sub that can keep up with the speakers.

Good luck,

Seong

Hi,
I think subs are a matter of prefference. Like having sugar or cream in your coffee, with so-called "full range", speakers. especially, With rolled off bottom ends and so on. Show me an affordable speaker that hits 20 Hz flat, with any degree of impact and satisfaction. Not generally in the less than $10K, or better neighborhood. Personally, I like a sub, even with two channel listening.

I've only heard the JR's briefly, at a local dealers listening room. After an hour or better of listening to the latest VR 4 III, I was not very impressed. I told the dealer I thought the VR 4 se III, must have something wrong with the bottom end. He said maybe I ought to go into an adjacent room to hear a speaker with a bass enclosure of wood, instead of fabric. OK. Same music, same track, $2000.00, less in speakerage, VR 4 JR's......about 30 seconds into their audition I was floored. The difference was just that startling. There was body. Warmth. Bottom end was noticeably more pronounced. All in all, very satisfying, in spite of the fact I did not believe it to be exptremely controlled bass, it was way more THERE!.

I should point out that the equipment (preamp & amps, was different), on the 4se III, it was all solid state, electrocompaniet preamp, Krell 250 WPC amp, Shanling tube CD player. On the VR 4 JR's, Same CD Player, Thor preamp, and two Thor mono blocks, 30wpc. . . AMAZING!

I learned a very important thing that day, as important as speakers can be, more important, is the front end. On the speaker end, enclosing the bass drivers into a solid enclosure is, for me, a more satisfying sound.

On the VR4SE III, just in dollars, the front end was about nine grand, the speakers were $6500.

On the VR4JR's, the front end was about Twenty two grand, and the JR'S cheaper by $2500.

Good speakers are worth investing in. Good front ends will provide better results with less expensive speakers, or at least in this instance, they did. I mean it was one of those, "Night and Day", differences.

lOTS OF FACTORS PLAY A PART IN SOUND REPRODUCTION. rOOM SIZE. POWER. SPEAKER EFFICIENCY, and so on. The VR4JR's CAN give good bottom end results, suprisingly to me, with attention to the signal path, and room dimensions. I heard them in a room about 13 x 21, with a 10 foot or so ceiling. Even liking subs as a rule, the JR's impressed me that day. Still do, actually.. . . . as impressive as the sound was, I ain't buying THOR, though. Might get those JR's. though, now that I know what they are capable of.

I have the 4jr's and the VR-S/1 sub and only use the sub when listening to HT. No need for the sub with music. I have experimented a little but I like it better with the sub off for music.

Good question.
It depends on ones definition of "need" in needing a subwoofer.
I have Von Schweikert VR3.5's and have owned speakers with built in subs (Mirage 1295is). I admittedly have not listened to the VR4.
Even if a speaker can go down to 20Hz, a substantially powerful subwoofer like the VonSchweikert S/3 which I have owned or the Velodyne HGS 18 can add a fullness and richness to music (esp piano) and theater that even a very fine main speaker alone cannot. It also gives relief to the amp driving the speakers which may improve clarity to the treble and midrange (depending on what amp is being used and how much reserve it has.) I believe Von Schweikert Audio will tell you that while a subwoofer is not essential, it will improve the soundstage and auditory experience even for their best speakers (and other brands.)

My personal goal in a system and listening is to feel sonic richness and fullness that gives one "goosebumps" or that "palpably real" experience.

OMG are you serious. NO SUB NECESSARY!!

the vr4jrs go down to 23hz
the vr4se goes to 16hz

Ditto, for listening to music, it's waaaaaay overkill.

(My plumber was over - I had my VR4/5s on, and he asked me where the subwoofer was - honestly.)

Best of luck,

Barton

It depends on what you're using the speakers for, I guess. I'm using a pair of the VR-4 SEs in a two-channel "home theater" setup, and with that rig I'm using two of VSA's VR-S/1 subs. It's overkill, but it really makes a nice difference in the impact department. In my main rig, I'm using a pair of the Jrs. (on loan), and I haven't even thought about a subwoofer--they put out some serious bass.