Subs for Martin Loagn CLSIIs

I use Genesis MC12 powered sub. Other have told me the use a REL. I have also heard but not with my system the Descent from ML. Try it you may like it. A 24db per octave crossover is needed.

I have my CLS IIz's mated with Vandersteen 2wq subs. I did lots of research on this....and liked the fact that the Vandy subs draw their signal from the amp powering the logans....even though the subs are internally powered and draw no power from the external amp.

A crossover element produced by Vandersteen sits between the preamp and the amp.

The blending and tonal balance is superb.

Check out this link for a better explanation:

http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/2Wqlit.html

I previously owned the CLS's setup with the Kinergic SW800's (SW800 Amps included). Does not get any better than that. Won best sound at CES several years ago.

I have since changed speakers (Watt/Puppy) for hometheater purposes, but still have the SW800's. Although they are setup for use with the Martin CLS specifically (i.e. specifically designed for the CLS by Kinergetics) they are great subs. Fast, powerfull etc. They work better than anything I have heard short of the 20K sub from Wilson Audio. You can feel them a block away. Don't think I'll ever get ride of them. Forget what I actually paid for them but it was significant back then. FIND A PAIR FOR YOUR CLS'S! THEY WILL GIVE YOU GOOSE BUMPS!

The best subs I had when I owned CLS were Celestion System 6000 dipole subs. Dipole bass is wonderful, and will naturally match the dipole nature of your speakers.

However, there are no current makers of dipole subs to the best of my knowledge. Fortunately, it is very easy to build one, much easier than traditional subs.

Here is a link that explains how:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm#PW1

I've also owned Entec subs and they are very good, but for a dipole speaker especially, I would go with a dipole sub.

This is an area where audition is almost mandatory. I listened to a variety of top-flight subs last year and I was surprised that some of the top ones don't integrate well (or, perhaps, easily) with ML's - and I would think that the CLS would be even more difficult than the hybrids.

In particular I got a real demonstration from an Aerial, which is a terrific sub - but it sounded really terrible when matched with ML Odyssey. I think that something was goofed up in the crossover in this case, but it sure wasn't obvious how to fix it to either me or to the dealer. The respected HGS-18 is also a great sub but it's not fast enough for this application IMHO.

ML has a new less expensive sub out now called the Grotto - their subs are specifically designed to be fast in order to integrate with their fast panels. I've never heard it, though.

If you cannot find the SW800 towers (5 10" drivers per speaker) you may be able to find the smaller SW800's (I think these had two of the same 10" SEAS per speaker). The key is getting the SW800C crossover which has software specific to the CLS. The Kinergetics system is the *only* sub system specifically designed for the CLS. The ML Decent and Depth subs are designed for later models (way different animals than the CLS) and really are appropriate for HT use, (even the guys at ML will tell you so).

Contrary to the usual approach of crossing over as low as possible, the Kinregetics/CLS combination is best crossing at 110htz with the 17db Butterworth high & low passes. Using tubes on the panels and ss on the subs sounds best to me. BTW, Tony DiChiro claims that the SW800's, due to their physical configuration and the crossover circuitry, approximated a line source down to 200 cycles when tested. In any event, the mini-Statement confirguration is the best I have heard with the CLS. I'd rather listen sans subs, which while different is quite good, if the SW800's are not an option. So, maybe looking for the smaller SW800's (with stands) is worth a try provided you get the dedicated crossover. The Genesis towers may the best option if you decide to "wing it". Good luck.

I'm not sure what you mean by low priced, but I have heard many systems using Martin Logan speakers, and subwoofers can be tricky. I would suggest that if you want to run stereo subwoofers, don't buy anything without auditioning the Definitive Technology SuperCube 1. This subwoofer is the first one, out of many more expensive contenders includint the Martin Logan Depth, that blends with my speakers seamlessly. Offerings from Revel and Martin Logan are amazing performers and are flexible in setup, but more $$$.

I second Rhyno's suggestion. I've got a pair of Entec LF-30's ( same as Lf-20's except with a 3rd driver in each enclosure.) They are NOT Home theatre Subwoofers - they are audio subs - there IS a big difference to the discerning audionut.

I also had the CLS2's and my sub did not integrate well at all with them (home built), although it did and continues to do so now. Although I am not sure how well they would integrate with the CLS2's, the ACI Titan II or Force are excellent low budget subs... HSU is also incredible to the bucks... you could start with one and add another when the budget allows...

good luck, Paul

I haved used two Genesis Metal 12 successfully for a few years.

Martin Logan Depth or the larger Descent is made specifically for your speakers.

rcrump just listed his entec l2f 20s on this site. these would work perfectly.

i used to own entecs w/ my merlin vsms---very nicely integrated. really wonderful subs .

rhyno

Man with those speakers I would want god subs.

You will need them to be fast.that is the main reason that it is so hard to blend a conventional driver with them.

I thought ML sold a sub that got praised. REL is one of the better manfs. I'd trust.They are great due to the fact you can blend the exact XO point below 40Hz..

How much do you want to pay for a pair? How about DIY? That is what I will do next because I want to XO point