I just started steam cleaning records with a hand-held Shark-- a great little $40 1000W steamer from Target on-line-- and a VPI 16.5 RCM. I can't imagine using steam without a RCM to ensure even application of steam and vacuum dry afterwards. |
Vanmeter it sounds like you are charging your lps with static some how which is drawing in dust particles from the air. I use a Furutech De Stat after my steam cleaning process. De Stat is a little expensive but it works very well. Also good for cables and other things in your system that develop static. I might be going overboard but i bought 3 of Orecks air purifier units. These things really work they capture dust, mold, bacteria, viruses and fungus from the air in your home, the wife hardly needs to dust as much now. One of them is very close to my TT.
I agree with you wholeheartedly with the sound of lps after a good steam cleaning regiment. Clean, clear, quite, and wide open sound. |
I should say, on a disc I had let air dry after wiping down with 3 different microfiber cloths, which has become my routine. |
I don't think I could stomach the idea of playing records wet. The steam seems to work so well...I catch myself constantly forgetting I'm listening to vinyl since the noise floor seems to drop so much and the sound becomes somewhat 3D. I really do think I hear some degradation of that using the RCM after steaming, but I can't imagine why unless, as you say, it's related to static. And it could be my imagination, frankly.
I mentioned wetness in the groove, but this gunk last night was on a disc steamed two weeks ago or more that I had let air dry, so it must be more than just dampness in the groove remaining. There's bound to be a "best of both worlds" situation, it's just finding it, right? :) |
I can't help but think that the RCM is an advantage, just I can't help but think the those Pledge cloths are charged with stuff that is best kept off your records. It's possible that the degradation that you hear after vacuuming is due to the static that is generated from the vacuuming process. If you use the RCM to the point of utter dryness the disc will come off staticky and quite attractive to dust in the air. I find a destaticing device such as Mapleshade's Ionocalst or Walker Audio's Talisman invaluable at this point just prior to playing. Alternatively, there are those who swear by playing their records wet, which of course precludes static, although your water better be ultra-pure, an important advantage however you clean.
Dealer disclosure. |
I assume that's slight moisture in the groove causing the gunk to cling to the stylus. That is exactly why I still use my DIY RCM after steaming. Nothing else lifts that suspended crud better than vacuuming. And you don't have to wait for the lp to dry before playing because it is dry after vacuuming. |
Vanmeter - for what it is worth I have been experimenting with Pledge dust and alergen unscented dry cloths available at Target and at my local supermarket. These disposable cloths appear to me to be without any obvious chemical additives like scent or aloe. I am using them as a dust and lint remover just before I drop the needle. Perhaps they can solve the gunk problem you are experiencing from (you suspect) the other micro-fiber cloths. I have also seen some random material residue when using the Wal-mart or auto detailing cloths. I am not suggesting you stop using the cloth-cloths - they seem to work very, very well - I am only saying that you might add a simple extra step. For the moment, I have replaced the carbon fiber record brush I WAS using with the pledge wipes. So far so good, with NO static issues.
Please carry on with your steam experiments and report back to the this thread or the steam-cleaning thread.
regards,
Joe |
Okay...I've been steaming for about two months now, and REALLY like the sound improvment. However, I'm getting a lot of dust still on the stylus after playing an album side, something I haven't dealt with in 20 years of having an RCM. Is there a way around this - I really like just using the microfiber cloths - or should I reconsider some combination of steam and RCM? It's bad enough that sometimes the sound is distorted, as the stylus is mistracking - I assume that's slight moisture in the groove causing the gunk to cling to the stylus. |
Vanmeter,
You have already answered your question. I had a VPI 16.5 and sold it a while ago. I now steam and it is the way to go. I use the 90 degree attachment and just place the record on a clean towel on the counter top (like the video on youtube).
Here is why I prefer not to use the VPI machine. I will steam for a few hours and clean many records at once. I like to listen to the records while I am cleaning. Hard to do with the RCM noise but rather nice while steaming.
The Microfiber cloths work great and remove all of the water, so I do not need the RCM. |
Buy a lazy susan. IKEA and other home stores sell them for around $10. It is basically a round wooden platform with a base made of bearings. I put a microfibre cloth on the top, drop an LP on there and spin it while steaming. Works perfectly and great for getting even coverage of steam. |
There are a couple other strings on this forum related to steam cleaning particularly the first one that will outline several iterations and methods to steam clean. Suggest you look at those too. |
Because, I swear, in addition to the noise issue, I really think I am hearing a little more space and air upon playback when I don't use the RCM. As I mentioned, I did one side each of a couple of different LPs both ways and really think I hear a slight difference for the better. I could be crazy, too. I know, I know, change the pads, right? :) |
Vameter : Do you know that lots of free Steam cleaning tips and explanations have already been covered in Two Steam Cleaning Threads , one currently active the other discontined. Both are worth reading.
The advantages of using a RCM were parced in these threads as were those that wanted to steam w/o the use of a RCM. From my perspective , steaming significantly loosens pressing greases that entrap all sorts of household gunk.This only gets worse as time moves on. The advantage of a RCM is that once the entraped materials are released ( either with or without record cleaning fluids ) a RCM Quickly, sucks up the released compounds. Of course , you can disregard using a RCM and rely on micro cloths. But, Should you own a RCM why not use it ? As for machine noise,a pair of inexpensive noise protectors works quite well. |
Btstrg: No major tecnique..Just go to Wallyworld or any discount type store and find a hand help steam cleaner..I found the Shark works very well with the ( aprox ) 4"wide attatchment..I try to keep the steamer about 3"-4" away from the record suface..Other than that it just takes a couple tries ( Practice on garbage record for )..I rigged a set up where ( record hangs on a rod ) so you can get at both sides ( with out handling ) ..and I steam both sides
( using Demin. water )and once steaming is done I spray a rinse (seperate spray bottle so it drips free )and them remove and lightly wipe with a Micro fiber cloth ..Records look prisinte once completed..You can't remove sctatches but just about everything else. |
What is the procedure for steam cleaning a record?? How far to you hold the steamer from the LP ?? Can someone either post or email me the procedure for steam cleaning, What steam cleaning I should get and were can I get one?
Thanks |
I use steam in conjunction with the 16.5 and I feel it offers a couple of advantages. I think with the platter spinning, I'm distributing the steam more evenly which also distributes heat more evenly and may reduce the risk of warping. I also believe that vacuuming off the residue is synergistic with the steaming process. Wiping the fluid off with anything seems to be a risk for pushing some of this gunk back into the grooves to me. I have no doubt that steaming without a RCM works fine but I think if you already have one it's more convenient and probably more effective to use it. I plug my ears when I turn my vacuum on. The duration of the noise is not long enough to be a likely cause of hearing damage anyway. It's not just decibel level, it's decibel level and duration that lead to damage. I come from a long line of farmers. Even low level engine noise all day long can be devastating. You're RCM for a few seconds at a time with your ears plugged, no problem. |
Well, I had a hearing test about two years ago and was told I have a huge, huge, hole in the octave around 2k...I don't notice it except sometimes life just sounds like I am in a tunnel, but I suspect my brain compensates most of the time. My top end is fine. But they said the loss was likely from being around loud noise...I was a DJ for years wearing headphones, and then had a recording studio, on top of playing in bands, and am now paying for it. I really am more concerned about not standing a foot away from my (very loud) RCM for even a minute or less. So I'm happy that the steam seems to work well without the RCM, and records even seem to sound better to me without the vacuum. Of course, from a man admitting hearing loss, but I do think I'm not missing anything.
Oh, and I'm 37 - take care of your hearing!!! |
I Tell ya! I am totally amazed at how well my little Shark Steam cleaner works and even though I built my own RCMachine I have no intention of using it ..Now its a conversation piece.I am that happy with the Steam cleaning..I set up a jig in my basement and can clean 10 records ( including a rinse cycle ) in less 15 or 20 minutes and now albums only needs periodic touch up ( light particles ) with a Discwasher or dry brush...If you have the bucks I am sure its great to have a $2000 RCM but if you are retired ( like me ) or can't afford a machine.For less than $50 you can clean to your hearts content....Very simple to use too....... |
I think this depends on how you use your RCM.I have been cleaning albums for 40 years and have tried just about everything. I have found that using a RCM in conjunction with disc doctor products and a good regim will get a record as clean as possible. |
Vanmeter,
It sounds like you can get by without the RCM. I personally like the convenience of using the RCM while steaming, but if you don't mind holding the record while you steam, I see no problem with not using the RCM.
I had a microfiber cloth that left white residue, but not all do. It sounds like if you get a different microfiber cloth you will be all set.
Regards,
Darrell |
Steam will put VPI machines to shame, and also the Keith Monks units. Stick with microfiber clothes and be done with it. Don't put the microfiber cloths in the washing machine, it will pick up lint. Hand wash and rinse. |
