fsmithjack
Thank You for the kind words and considerations. Actually, we are in a similar situation regarding an integrated amp. I have been auditioning an Ayre AX-5 Twenty and never thought an integrated could rival separates.
To my ears, the Ayre separates are a measure better, meaning, the company's reference integrated can hold its own at $12K retail.
The Stage III Concepts is a very special PC. At the price points- it should !I cannot comment on Stage III interconnects because I have not auditioned.Spend as much time with this brand as you allow the speakers to bloom.
Keep me posted on developments within your system. Have fun!
Happy Listening!
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@fsmithjack
Very interesting thread. Been following along and initially thought, "wow these Stage III wires are expensive" and now I'm following along to see how they fair. I will probably take a closer look at the line.
I think that if you found the Soulution to be significantly better with the Stage III power cords than the Pass, and you keep saying that, I think you will be disappointed with the Pass gear if you "settle" for it. But good advice has been given here. Try to spend good time with the Pass and Soulution and make as an informed decision as possible. Keep trying the mix-N-match technique @inna suggested and you'll get there and have the system that sounds best to you.
I prefer a sound that is as high as possible in resolution and certainly over one that may be a bit warm, so you can see my leaning to the Soulution piece. But take your time if the situation will allow and really listen as much as you can.
As you mentioned, the Soulution will save on ICs, power cords, etc (rack space too). And that it sounds better than separates to you speaks volumes. Let your ears guide you.
Looking forward to your updates.
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Hey Inna,
Those Gryphon 300's are really - really nice amps. Powerful, dynamic, a little dark but in a good way because Gryphon nails voicing their gear.
They do have a voice which some say is a bad thing but not me because regardless of what those experts say they all have a voice some less then others but that doesn't mean those are any better.
I happen to really like the Gryphon sound which I would describe it as strong, vibrant and sophisticated. Polished with a very skilled and practiced hand. It's like they kept teasing it out over and over and drew a little more out each time until they got it right where they wanted and teased it out some more and I think they really nailed it.
Their digital is really underrated and excellent also. I am told the phono stage in that unit is the scaled own version of an amazing phono.
People take shots at them because of their prices, market positioning and branding but its most just jealousy. I think it is very well made and truly expertly built and really creamy gear. Yipson has the air, extension and space. Soulution speed and transparency and a grasp on the drivers like no other and the Gyphon is vibrant, dynamic and creamy sound.
I am a definite fanboy of the Gryphon. They are no joke.
At first I thought it sounded a little like the really good Rowland gear but its better.
Their separates are insanely good but also insanely expensive.
There is one of these around with no phono for around $12,500
My buddy Josh a Walker Audio has a brand new for a really good price that I don't want to list on here. I thought long and hard on it before I spend more for the Soulution. PM me if you are really interested in one and I will get you a brand new one for a lot less than the price you have.
Cheers...
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I just spend an 3/4 of an hour on the phone on a 3 way call with my Soulution / Stage III dealer and Brian Ackerman the proprietor of aaudio imports. What an awesome and knowledgeable guy. His brands are below. http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowBrand.asp?hBrand=14Here are is his brands
Acapella | Acoustic Research | Audiotop | B.M.C. | Finite Elemente | Hartvig | HB Cable Design Ikeda | Isoclean | Lansche | Metaxas | Millennium | Stage III | Tandem Thales | Wilson Benesch | Ypsilon
Brian gave me all the background info on the guy that makes the Stage III cables by hand. It is one guy and he makes everything by hand.. Guy is amazing and man these things are built by hand with the most insane materials and parts quality. They use 3d printers and palladium / silver alloys and carbon fiber and all this crazy damping material and it was really cool. Talk about a boutique specialty brand. This is some amazing stuff. Sure it cost a ton but talk about the opposite of mass produced stuff. He said he sold well over 500 of the Kraken power cables that are $8500 a pop and $10800 for 2 meters. That is a lot of cheese right there... He was telling me about the not too overly expensive Ypsilon integrated that is a special transformer based volume control that no one else in the world uses. He was saying it is the exact same as the separate pre/monoblock just not as much power but they are pretty much exactly the same. It is $24k and used the same stuff as a $37k preamp and $38 power amp which is pretty awesome. I am a sad excuse for an audiophile. Already looking to demo another amp when I have 2 I am trying to decide on now. It is a sickness I tell you a true sickness...lol Inna, Honestly you might want to look at this before the Gryphon. Brian was going off. He thinks its the best amp Ypsilion makes and Michael Fremmer called the Ypsilion phono the greatest audio anything he has ever heard and he still thinks that today. Brian said this integrated is better. Sure, he sells the stuff but no for nothing. This guys doesn't my sale to be ok in life. He is doing pretty well. Super, nice, soft spoken guy also. Here it is: http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=251 |
fsmithjack, thank you, I appreciate your offer. Unfortunately, I am not quite financially prepared for the Gryphon at the moment.
I also consider used Gryphon separates for the future, even if 20 years old ones. Now that would be incredible. I am patient, I save up and upgrade very rarely.
I actually read somewhere about Magico/Soulution great match, they were Soulution separates. I think, Magico/Luxman is also a popular combination. But I had no idea that Stage III cables and especially power cords are so good with them, maybe I missed this part.
I keep an eye on top Swiss electronics, they know a thing or two about these things. |
Yes, I am aware of the Ypsilon, and it is definitely one more top brand to consider. However, I prefer this deep powerful slightly on the dark side of neutral sophisticated and dynamic sound created by Flemming Rasmussen. Besides, Ypsilon Phaethon integrated is significantly more expensive than Gryphon Diablo 300 and has no phono stage option, unless this has changed.
There are really good choices at this level. |
I’m watching this thread with some interest. I agree that contrary to common audio system wisdom, a top-flight cable can make ALL the difference, even in a mid-range system. I have invested in MIT interconnect and speaker cables which are the same cost as my front end, and my amp, and almost as much as my [used] Wilson speakers. (All lower level than items discussed here, but wanted to say ’bingo’ on the importance of cables overall). I remember a review I read several years ago where the guy was using $3,500 MIT/Transparent cables and an $1,000 Acurus (sp?) integrated, and he was getting the best sound he had heard from his speakers and mega-buck separate(s) system previously. Wilson and Magico used to demo with MIT. Ears I trust have also mentioned the Stage III and Jorma as A+. |
Yes, I forgot to mention Jorma from Sweden. Never heard it, though, popular with Jadis and Vitus owners if I remember right.
I have twenty years old Redgun RGi120 integrated, that retailed for I think $1350 at the time. It took Purist Dominus Revision B Ferox power cord, which is probably about the same age and retailed for over $2k, to make it sound as it can.
I also heard that Dominus works great with Gryphons and many tube amps too so it will probably stay with me forever. I was less impressed with it on my Acoustech phono and CEC belt drive cd player, though it was still better in all respects than CPCC Top Gun. Top Gun is very good for source components. |
Believe it or not, I have Purist Aquila cord, designed for digital, on PS Audio regenerator and it works real good there. And the previous owner used it with his Studer A810 open reel deck with great success ! Interesting cord, I would say. |
fsmithjack
Thank You for sharing information regarding your talk with Soulution/Stage III Concepts featuring Brian Ackerman. He is an Audiophile at heart. There is quite a difference in cabling made by hand vs. the mass produced offerings as the discussion revealed. I look forward in reading more about the gear chosen for your system.
Happy Listening! |
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Gryphon interconnects sound better than Stage III with the Soulution ? |
I know I thought the same at first because they are all black but they share the same name as the great electronics maker but for them its just a model vs a brand and with the same spelling but are made by Stage III. They are the former Gen Flagship cable: Audio Imports: Stage 3 Concepts
A.S.P. REFERENCE GRYPHON interconnects
Gryphon ULTIMATE RESOLUTION INTERCONNECTS Price:$6,400 / $7,100
Product Features:
RCA Type:
• $6,400 1 meter pair
• Add $1,650 per .5 meter pair XLR Type:
• $7,100 1 meter pair
• Add $1,900 per .5 meter pair A.S.P. REFERENCE GRYPHON interconnects will allow you to experience sound completely free of coloration or distortion caused by electromagnetic or mechanical interferences, reaching the ultimate level of sonic authenticity, totally unrestricted and effortless. These limited edition interconnects offer a spatial presentation like nothing you have ever heard with a completely palpable, lifelike soundscape. Literally an open window into the music as well as the full potential of your system. The enviable performance of all A.S.P. series cables make them the definitive statement in advanced, ultra-high performance audio interface technology.
WORLDWIDE SALES THROUGH SELECT DEALERS & DISTRIBUTORS we have authorized distributors in the following countries Hong Kong & China, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Vietnam and we have authorized dealers in North America
USA & Canada
Product Specifications:A.S.P. REFERENCE GRYPHON interconnects employ 6 silver/palladium alloy AeroStrand Ultra™ conductors in a twin twisted pair geometry. Dielectric inner core tubes contain a semi-vacuum, drawn to 675mmHG. 100% radiation invulnerable shielding uses exclusive H.D.A.(High Density Alloy) foil plus nickel plated copper braid. Multi-layer construction with silica/ceramic/ferrite mechanical damping/shielding layer. Dual cryo-treatment. Available single ended or balanced with custom handmade polymer-filled, carbon fiber plug housings which help eliminate external vibrations. Exclusive Hyperion Ceramic plugs with Pure Silver electrical contacts and Cryo-treated, (custom made by Stage III Concepts).
Product Buzz:you complete me,
August 2008 READ MORE »
First, there was the Stage III Concepts ASP Gryphon, then there was every one else, July 2008 READ MORE »
Hail the new king, July 2008 READ MORE » Brand News:Stage III introduces 3 new Digital Links, January 2019 READ MORE »
2016 Positive Feedback Writers Choice Award, November 2016 READ MORE »
Stage III Reinvents The Signal Cable, December MORE »
Stage III Advances The Speaker Interface, May 2015 READ MORE »
Stage III Releases the Monster, March 2015 READ MORE »
Aaudio Press Release: Stage III Concepts, August 2008 READ MORE »
Official Website:http://www.stage3concepts.com/
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I see, just the same name.
The Soulution looks like it weighs more than a speaker if not two speakers. |
Good luck with your new and wonderful set up. |
Hi fsmithjack, I own Stage 3 Power Chords, Krakens and Minotaurs - a discontinued model - still a Solid Build. I run the Kraken from the wall outlet to a HB Cable Power Slave power distributor. I run the Minotaurs from the Power Distributor to all of my components 6 total. When I first Auditioned Stage 3 Power Cables I heard what I call an uncompromising Improvement within the first 30 seconds. I say Uncompromising because I knew from that moment on exactly what my next investments were going to be.
Brian Ackerman was a great resource and a wealth of knowledge when It came time for me to make these investments and I never looked back. When I get the scratch I will invest in a Stage 3 Leviathan Power Cable and run that from the wall out let to the Power Distributor. Then move the Kraken over to the CDP. I have heard and would agree with his recommendation on the Ypsilon equipment. If you have the means you should audition. As far as the SS stuff mentioned in this post the best that I have heard IMHO is the Ayre Twenty. The other companies mentioned, although represent great build qualities didn't sound as musical to me. - The Ypsilon in my opinion bested them all. Another Company I recently auditioned that I found just as Mind blowing as Stage 3 was High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Helix Just to stir the pot so to speak... http://www.hb-cable-design.com/1_english/ps_2.htmlhttp://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/power/ct1urh |
The Esoteric F07 or Grandioso F1 would sound better than Solution 530 at much less cost.With these units or Esoteric So3 power amp with there preamp.Then you could have kept your cables and not gotten Stage 3 which are great but overpriced.Gook luck though!! |
I guarantee you that if you swapped out STC’s with even Anticables, you wouldn’t know which cables were being used. At some point these things become a religion.
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ebms
The F1 is a decent amp I guess at its price point. I've heard it driving a pair and Wilson Yvette Speakers and it was ok I guess. I mean I don't know I thought maybe the speakers are were not that great but then again I heard those same speakers in the same system with a 5 year old $2500 Naim amp and it sounded great so it wasn't the speakers or the system. The Naim was way better.
Sorry man, there are plenty of amps out there to throw up there against the 530 but that F1 is not one of them. I'd take that used Naim any day over it and that thing used prob goes for maybe $1500 but in fairness to that F1 amp what is it?
Parts and labor are what? Maybe $2000 or maybe $2500?
The caps alone in a 530 cost more than that and trust me it's not all about money for great sound but to say money in high end audio doesn't matter is being a bit disingenuous at best. To say the F1 will sound better is just silly.
Now like I stated I bought my Soulution used. Sure it is a current model amp that goes for $55,000 but I certainly didn't pay that for it.
I can tell you right now that this 530 amp in a very fair fight legit and fairly as can be handily beat out a mint pair of $27,300 Pass Labs XA-160.8 Monoblocks no problem. Once the Stage III Kraken power cable was plugged into the Soulution it was a no contest, clear as day much better amp and I loved my Pass Labs amps. I love Pass labs and have owned over a half dozen of their amps. I am a huge fan of Nelson and am a sucker for his pure Class A sound but in a very fair fight the 530 trounced it.
dave_b
I actually owned anti-cables and was a believer of them and really liked them. Had them for a while along with others (Cardas, Nordost, HiDiamond, Audience) all around the same time feeling my through the cable wabbit hole.
Then I bought a pair of interconnects from a small company call Darwin. Really good prices and really really good sounding interconnects.
The pair I bought was called the Darwin TRUTH. Tony Bender is one of the owners and is a really nice guy. They are under a $900 for 1M. They were these little clear plastic tubes that has a single, pure, solid silver, cryo treated little cable in there.
OMG, did I love those cables. They made those anticables sound like I was using fishing string. I thought those anti-cables were solid until they got their brain bashed in by these Darwin. Destroyed them, it was amazing to me at the time. I remember it clear as day.
Anyone could hear that difference. It was gigantic. Those Darwins were awesome and I had them for a few years as my main IC's and still own a pair and try them every now and again and they always hold their own. The Kubala-Sosna are quite a bit more refined with better bass and over all a better cables but those Darwin were raw with bit. Some could call them a bit brite but I loved them, They pealed the layers off like only silver will do or so I thought at the time anyways. They give your system a shot in the arm, some jump and life. I loved them. The problem with them is the clear plastic kinks and once it kinks that part is soft and will always kink in that same area so not the most rugged cables but they destroyed the anti-cables.
I have really good Kubula-Sosna Emotion that I have been going back and forth with the Stage III and there is a pretty big difference.
I get your point, people can go overboard with cables and I get it and agree with you in that to a point as it is what I am doing right now. It is a slippery slope but now a days these cables matter and can change a system just like that. I get it there are still plenty of people that don't believe in them.
I respect that and appreciate everyone's take but they matter to me and seems to be to some others as well.
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Thats great dude its your money.Im now using M3s maybe i should jump on Soulution.However I’m very happy with Audia flight #4 amp and #1 preamp with Purist Dominus cables for now.I did like the Soulution mono amps at $155.000.The top Esoteric amp and preamp is certainly as good as Soulution and made as well.I m sorry i did not really mean F1. |
ggc
I second, Ayre Twenty Series of electronics. Extremely musical, are the best descriptors here. Happy Listening!
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ggc
Welcome and thanks for your input. Great to hear from a Stage III owner. Not many out there is seems so thanks for the joining us. I appreciate it.
That HB Cable Power Slave power distributor you have is amazing. Your a mad man. I love it. I would love one of those but that is def a bridge to far for me but good for you.
Rather than some really expensive conditioner/distributor I am thinking outside the box and going to try something else.
My underground utilities transformer luckily is right in my front yard so the line from my house goes only about 50 feet to my front yard to the actual transformer.
For my own over the top idea for power is this:
Dedicated 20 amp circuit for each individual component. One 2 outlet unit per component on its own 20 amp dedicated circuit with premium Romex copper wire, all housed in the own separate, dedicated audio circuit 100 amp service box and then providing it with a solid, not tubed but sold copper elliptical outside the wall of my box in my side yard - ERICO LPC704 CU SOLID GROUND ROD.
I will make sure each wire for each outlet is run as to not touch any other wire individually and is carefully routed to the back of my system to its own box. All terminated at the back of my system with
GTX-D NCF(R)
Furutech’s Ultimate AC Receptacle Series outlets. I am going to use 5 of these.
It will actually be a lot cheaper than an expensive conditioner. Not saying it will be better than
expensive conditioner but hate how most conditioners suck the life out of a system.
We will see how it goes but I am pretty excited. Many people say it makes a really big difference. Now if I had the money I would just get a HB Cable Power Slave power distributor and plug it into my current dedicated 20 amp circuit that is hooked into my houses box but I'm going old school and putting my electrician to work in the hope to improve my system. Again, prob over the top but if I am paying an electrician to come in and do work might as well get down and dirty and do it the right away :) |
fsmithjack,
Beautiful! photos of your room and system. Happy Listening!
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ebm
Yeah I was going to say. The F1 Really?? Come on man... lol
BTW, I came very close to owning an Audia Flight Strumento No 1 MKII.
Now you are talking turkey. That is a killer amp. I love their gear.
Came very close to pulling the trigger one. My buddy Paul is or was the USD. I live in MA and he is like a 1/2 from me. I bought my Pass 160.8 from a guy that Paul set me up with who sold them because he prefers the Strumento No 1 over them who actually I am selling them back to. Thats another story...lol
Paul offered to bring the AF No1 to my house and the only reason I didn't demo it was because its like a 170 pounds and just too much to lug around.
Over a 130 I am just asking to blow out my back but that is prob the only reason one is not in my room.
They have awesome driver control like Soulution. I prefer that with a Magico driver. They like juice and to be controlled IMO or maybe that is just my taste. I think that is part of the reason I chose Solution over the Pass and why the guy who sold them to me prefer the AF Strumento. Got to grab hold of them their drivers and show em the way I say...
The Purist Dominus is an excellent cable and right there with Stage III no doubt. Those are dam good. I prob should have tried the No 4 but was stuck on the No1.
I have owned a lot of electronics. I would take Audia Flight over Esoteric any day. I have not tried all their gear of course but owned the very C03 preamp and their very nice A03 but I liked the Pass Labs better. I liked the Simaudio Moon Evolution P-8 way better than the C03 and my Pass X350.5 and the X250.8 better than the A03 but I liked the A03. I found the Pass Labs XA-160.8 monoblocks and the Soulution to be on a total other level then the Esoteric gear and Audio Flight No 1 as well.
Now I did not hear the AF in my system but I was awed by how awesome it was. You can just tell when something is really good and when something is great. Greatness just separates itself. I am not good enough at describing what I mean other then to say that you know it when you hear it. Audio Flight did it, Pass Labs did it and so did Soulution.
I mentioned earlier not sure if you saw it but my local dealer is also the Yipsilon dealer and I am on the list to demo the Phaethon. If it is as good as they say maybe the Soulution will be with me for only a short time but man right now it is the very best amp I have ever owned and calling it an amp I don't think is fair because it is the best preamp/amp combo I have ever owned and it has a legit reference phono stage. A lot of people take shots at this amp because its expensive and ugly and doesn't make many watts but man it is one dam good amp. The best I have ever owned but there needs to be an asterisk with that statement because it only became this great when I added the Stage III Concept Kraken Power cable. That part can not be left out. That cable transformed this amp. Perfect synergy IMO. That is why I am wondering what the Phaethon will sound like with the Kraken.
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Here is an audiophile idea close to the extreme. One pair of speakers, three integrated amps for different music and/or mood. Soulution 530, Gryphon Diablo 300 and Ypsilon Phaethon. Cabling as needed.
I like your electrical plan, should be excellent. |
lol... if i could afford it id do it...my would prob go nuts though... |
Not with amps but actually I was doing it for some time with two pair of very different interconnects, Purist Neptune fluid and Tchernov Audio Reference MK II. Neptune won but I use the Tchernov with tape deck. |
I just typed out this big old update and summary to share some new info with you guys and clicked to preview and deleted it.... Uhhhgggg... |
fsmithjack
looking forward to the summary/update. Happy Listening! |
This thread is blowing my mind - never heard of cables having such an enormous effect in any system. I spent the past year trying to optimize PC's for my Pass 350.8 and Bricasti M1SE for my Magico S3Mk2's and discovered that the Bricasti was fairly sensitive to PC, the Pass even more so but I always considered it as fine tuning the system although some changes in all honesty went from making a good sounding system go from enjoyable sound to approaching "magical". On my Gryphon Diablo 300 the PC changes made far less discernable differences than on the Pass. Everything is system dependent and components react in different ways but the extent to which you're describing is surprising as it sounds almost order of magnitude. I'd love to hear those cables in my system if you end up not going for them. |
Hey Owl,
We have VERY similar systems. Thats cool.
I had:
Pass 160.8
Bricasti M1SE
Magico S5 MK II
So i can help you.
1st thing - are you using the ethernet network player in your Bricasti?
If not get it back to Brain ASAP and get it installed. It is way better then Aurender, Auralic, Lumin, Sonore/Uptone and Antipods or the like just because it gets rid of USB and does a ethernet which is cleaner to start via its Is2 conversion right before the chips which as Brian will tell you is the most pristine way to do it. No Is2 cable or connectors needed.
2nd - if you are using the Bricasti ethernet player then I can help as well.
What are you feeding it Roon with and how are you powering that unit and with what Ethernet and dc cables,
Once I know this I have other info but that said you need get this. Google this and buy it. HUGE update and was only $895
The Linear Solution OCXO Ethernet Switch and matching 912 power supply and get their RJ/E Cable. It is a HUGE upgrade but even more so with the Bricasti ethernet player. This Ethernet player loves this switch / LPS combo.
Don't hesitate. Buy it. You will be very happy... Let me know on the other info as well.
I would say reading your cable description is exactly what I felt before this experience.
Now i did not find the same improvement with these cables when using my Pass amps although there was a great improvement it just was that great improvement but not the utter night and day - make the amp entirely different. The Soulution just soared and erupted with Kraken. I have tried removing the Kraken power cable and tried others and the drop off is just ridiculous. They should charge $10,000 more for these and ship it with this cable. It would be well worth it.
Let me know on that other info.
Thanks for sharing with us...
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Brian is the best - a genius I'd say and has some of the best customer service I've ever seen in high end audio. Stellar hi value product and company. Thanks for the heads up on these. The M1SE has a lot of performance in it if you care and feed for it correctly. I love my unit on Shunyata Sigma NR BTW - tried a lot of different ones including Audience SX etc and that one just ticked off all the right boxes for me, although the Audience was sex on wheels and gave that excitement of live music being created in front of you I prefer the more laid back presentation of the Shunyata FWIW. |
Thanks for the kind words about Darwin Cables fsmithjack. As remarkable as the Darwin Truth's are, The Truth II's are even better. The original design was very stripped down. The Truth II is more rugged and yet still extracts even more details from recordings. And we've just released the best cable we've ever built, The Enlightenment by Darwin. —Tony Bender, Darwin Cables www.darwincables.com |
Crystals...yeah!! Silver...oh boy!!
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fsmithjack
Beautiful pics! Good to read that you are still enjoying Stage III Concepts cabling. Happy Listening!
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@fsmithjack
So, how is the Stage III/Soulution combo working now?
BTW, thanks for the digital recommendations above. I'm just using a Heimdall 2 AES connection with my N10, but will look into further upgrades at some point. If I read your comments correctly, the switch was the real winner?
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