I'm actually talking about when the volume is turned up and no music is playing. IOW putting one's ear to the speakers without the CD or LP playing and at a typical volume level. The noise is then evident, which I would believe would lead to some impurity slipping into the playback once music is playing. Even though this would seem on the face of it to be inaudible with music, is it really?
Complete silence at all volume levels isn't something that I have heard any tube preamp accomplish, ss OTOH I have. Therefore, my question IF anyone has heard or knows of a tube preamp that can accomplish this. |
In my instance, the tube noise is through my phono stage, however, the line stage also exhibits some noise. The tubes are rolled in NOS from Kevin at Upscale and are supposedly the lowest noise he stocks! They do sound great, BUT they are audible as the gain increases ( not as I stated with music playing).
I'm really surprised that this isn't a factor with all tube preamps...particularly IF they include a phono stage and therefore are providing high gain.
BTW, I used to own an ARC SP10Mk2 and the problem was even worse. Interesting that an SP16 is very quiet....perhaps that's due to the hybrid nature of the SP16?? |
Ralph, that's interesting. I do use a fairly low output MC. However, I am hearing noise not when music is playing, BUT when it isn't. So, by lifting the arm of the record and increasing the gain, I do hear tube rush...which lead me to my OP. Are you saying that without an SUT, all tube phono preamps will solicit some tube hiss when the gain is turned up and no music is playing?
BTW, in my case. the surface noise is louder than the dominant background noise....BUT I would think this still leads to a reduction in the "blackness" of the sound. |
I'm not sure that any high gain tube preamp and phono stage will sound completely quiet when the gain is turned up and there is no music playing. I have never heard such a piece. OTOH, I do agree that so long as the tube noise doesn't appear to be audible when music is playing, then there appears to be no problem and I also much prefer tubes over ss. However, I do wonder how much better the overall SQ, could and would be, IF no tube hiss was present whatsoever in the system. |
Ralph, is it possible to make a tubed phono section without a SUT that is noiseless? |
Ralph, thank you. I was beginning to believe that my tube phono section was faulty...same with the preamp. Particularly after reading some of the other posts on this thread. BUT, I kind of figured that some of these examples aren't all tube phono stages and IF they are, then the user isn't listening close to the speaker with the volume up and no music playing. I guess like everything in our hobby, there are trade-off's to be made. I'm still firmly in the tube camp though...particularly in the preamp stage. |
Trumweiller, please thank Ken from me. Ken's response was very illuminating and educational. I do agree that the noise from my CAT is quite minimal. I have rolled in tubes into both stages....NOS Mullards into the Line stage and NOS GE long plates into the phono stage Both sets were a nice upgrade to the stock Ei's. OTOH, the noise factor that we are discussing, has remained the same regardless of the tube used. As I stated earlier, the hiss ( noise) is NOT at all noticeable when music is playing. IF doing away with the noise ( or more of it, as I guess getting away from ALL of it isn't possible) also throws out the baby with the bath water....as Ken states; then I TOTALLY agree with Ken's decision to keep the current protocol. IMHO, the CAT preamps are STILL the best tube preamps that i have ever heard. Thanks again, Ken! |
Err Ralph, when I started the thread, i was actually talking about both phono and line stages; however, it quickly became evident that the phono stage is more of a factor. BUT, I think that Tube Line stages seem to suffer from the same problems, perhaps less obviously so, but nonetheless not totally quiet at all volume levels with no input signal. Is that not a fact with all Tube Line stages as well? |
Grimace, so that we are all on the same page...how did you "listen" to the Nagra jazz pre-amp? For example...at a distance of...fill in the blank here. With music playing, without music playing, etc,. |
