SPU People: I love my Royal N. Which SPU will I like even better?

I picked up a variety to hear what SPUs have to offer:

Ortofon SPU Classic GM E MkII - close to original sound

Ortofon SPU E GM Gold - good reviews

Ortofon SPU Century - likely top of line

I haven’t heard them yet though.

That was where I got the idea to try the Royal N in the first place but note his comments on SUT matching with it. A classic N or EN would be a better match to the stageline or wait for the Korf and try a G series pickup. Meanwhile there’s the serious fun of enjoying music with the FrankenProteus.

That Stageline with a nice SUT would probably sound really good with the Royal N.

Have you seen this blog about SPUs? He uses a Royal N with a Schröder arm. It's a two part article.

https://medialux.blog/2018/04/27/what-a-feeling/

I’m not using a SUT, though it’s something I’ll try in the future. I use a Naim MC only Superline upgraded with their supercap power supply. I load the Royal N with 220Ω and the Proteus with 100Ω, The arm is a Schröder Reference. I do have Naim’s rather more primitive stageline N MM phonostage as well but it only has 35dB of gain, I bought it for my mono wired Decca which I use on a Townshend Rock mk2, with which it’s works very well but since the Royal N ideally wants no more than a 20:1 SUT it doesn’t have enough gain for that and I’d need to look elsewhere. I’ll probably need something rather better too. My history with separate phono stages is limited to the Tom Evans built Michell iso (now rather old) and the Superline, both MC only, plus the Stageline N. 

Interesting. Which SUT do you use with the Royal N?

I had a Transfiguration Proteus before the Royal N and bought the Royal N because I expected it to be so different from the Proteus that I wouldn’t forever be comparing unfavourably, as I would had I gone back to my DV17D3. I ended up preferring the Royal N to the Proteus. When I eventually came to get the Proteus rebuilt I was offered an Ogura OA as originally fitted or two other profiles, one of which was a Gyger S (120/6).The Ogura would have been the sensible choice with regard to potential resale value but I opted for the Gyger on the back of what I was hearing from the similar Replicant 100 (100/5) and I can’t say I regret the choice. The Royal N has it on tone but the Gyger Proteus isn’t so far behind and has leading edge detail that the Royal N rounds off, going back will be the decider. Both dig out the emotional content from the music rather well.

Nope it didn't. I'm sort of going back in time now and I'm enamored with the non SPU SL15 and the SPU-TE with the built in transformer. It's tough, once you hear the tone these cartridges produce, to enjoy to the more sterile A95. The Royal N is still closer to those vintage carts but still has the more modern dynamics. I'm in a "less is more" phase I think.

Did the 95 live up to your hopes for it?

I’ve also fallen for the SPU Royal N but not heard any other SPUs. I have a heavy arm with removable headshell on the way to explore further.

Except what give me listening pleasure and what gives you listening pleasure are quite possibly two very different things. There aren’t a ton of real ice cream flavors but definitely more than one.

@edgewear , Howard Johnson's made 28 flavors but we know there is only one ice CREAM and that is vanilla. There is no accounting for bad taste otherwise.

What you are doing is making excuses for inferior equipment. If your taste leads you in that direction no one can argue with you. 

I want to close my eyes and feel as if I am in front of the actual performance with the recordings that are capable of this. This is not a crap shoot. The equipment and rooms capable of performing at this level do so because they were engineered, designed to do so. There might be multiple paths to the Absolute Sound but most paths are dead ends. Enjoyable maybe, but dead ends. I have been down several of them. 

Don't put chocolate chips in your vanilla. It screws up the texture.

There is a lot of good equipment that will produce enjoyable music. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the absolute best performance capable with current equipment. It is unfortunate that most of us can not afford it. I know well what that feels like. For years I engineered systems in my dreams that I could not afford, but then maybe that is why I worked so hard to be able to afford them. If people would stop wasting money on silly voodoo witch magic garbage they might be able to save up better. 

It is not an illusion at all edgewear. Hearing is believing.  

Very nicely said @edgewear!

@dhcod the A95 is a very musical cartridge and I’m sure you will enjoy it. The sound balance can be further tailored to your taste by the choice of amplification. As said, all SPU’s like SUT’s. The A95 has silver plated copper coils, so the choice of a silver wired SUT might push the sound too far to the brighter side of life. A copper wired SUT would probably be your best option.

@mijostyn I think the idea of aiming for the ‘best’ performance is an illusion. Different strokes to different folks. We simply can’t escape our own, subjective opinion. There are different camps of all sorts, tube versus solid state, analog vs digital, horn vs dipole, etc. In a perfect world these approaches to the ‘absolute sound’ (whatever that means) should happily coexist, but of course that’s not the world we live in. So on forums like this people keep debating this until kingdom come.

The same goes for MC cartridges. If you want to hear everything that went on during the recording process, you inevitably will be attracted to the ‘modern’ camp and choose a cartridge offering the highest possible resolution. This will require the use of advanced stylus profiles as well as other design choices to maximise tracking, minimise distortion, resonances, etc. It will extract the maximum amount of information from the recording if that’s what you’re after. When I’m in the mood for this I would choose something like a Colibri, incidentally a 30+ year ‘old’ design that hasn’t really changed all that much.

However, if you want to get emotionally drawn into the music this is not necessarily the only or even the ‘best’ approach. Some of the musically most rewarding cartridges are not highest resolution at all. Some SPU’s, the FR-7f(z) and Miyabi’s are definitely not the last word in detail retrieval or dissolving spacial cues, but they offer the greatest emotional involvement and musical enjoyment. This ‘certain something’ is very hard to describe or explain, but very easy to hear. 

@edgewear Thanks for the description of the Anniversary Models. I just popped for an A95. Hope it's not TOO modern.  Not really looking for something even more modern than my Royal N.... I don't think. Who knows really?  One person's modern may very well be another's something else.

@edgewear , I am not sure where this attraction to old HiFi gear comes from. The absolute best combination from my childhood suffers in comparison to the best modern systems. In my view it is all about the best performance. I acknowledge that others view might be different. If they are looking for the best performance they are headed down the wrong path. The reason stylus profiles evolved was to improve performance and record wear. In it's day the Shibata was the best stylus you could buy. It is relatively easy to make. The newer styluses like the Gyger S and the Replicant 100 required advances in manufacturing techniques and machinery.  

Perhaps it helps to give some idea of how these Anniversary models sit inside the SPU sonic spectrum. The A85 is the most ‘classic’ with a very ‘ballsy’ presentation. It has a higher output than most other SPU’s, which could be a welcome feature in some systems. Actually, the SPU Synergy in the current line up is based on the A85. A similar sonic presentation, but without the very handsome lacquered beechwood body. The SPU A90 and A95 feature some of the innovations from the ‘normal’ A90 and A95 counterparts, including laser ‘printed’ bodies in stainless steel and titanium. These are more ‘modern’ sounding systems, yet without sacrificing the SPU character. My personal favourite of these three is the A90. It goes without saying that all SPU’s sound best with an appropriate step up transformer, the choice of which will greatly determine the final results. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks for the info. I think I'm looking for more of a taste of the old SPU sound. I have an SL15 so I know what that it. It sounds like I should be looking for one of the Anniversary models!

@mijostyn I’m aware Replicant 100 is considered to be more ‘advanced’ than Shibata, but we must assume Ortofon selected this profile for a reason in their ‘statement’ SPU Century. Of course they could just as easily have picked the highest grade Replicant instead. Perhaps use of the Replicant combined with the other modernised design elements of the Century would have put it outside the desired SPU sonic spectrum. 

Actually I didn’t suggest to go look for a more modern approach with an advanced stylus profile for high resolution. That’s not what the SPU is about. If that’s what the OP is after, there are other and much better alternatives, both from Ortofon and others (as you mentioned). 
 

@edgewear, the Replcant 100 is a much more advanced profile than the shibata. It tracks with less noise and set up correctly causes less record wear.

@dhcod , as edgewear suggests you are better off looking at cartridges with advanced stylus profiles. If you like Ortofon the Windfeld Ti and MC Diamond are great examples. The MC Diamond is a great cartridge for higher mass tonearms. There are many others out there from companies like Lyra, MSL and Soundsmith. I know all three of these companies use excellent styluses because I have looked at them. I'm sure there are others that I have not experienced. 

Another thing about styluses, not all styluses of a given type are created equally. I have become reasonably certain that styluses like other diamonds are graded. The ones that are not absolutely perfect are not thrown away, they are used in less expensive cartridges. Like anything else, you get what you pay for.

It depends on what you’re after. The Royal is one of the more ‘modern’ sounding SPU’s, using an advanced stylus profile (Gyger Replicant 100). If you want to pursue this modern sound (in terms of detail retrieval, soundstaging, etc.) the Royal is probably your best bet in the current lineup. Perhaps the 100th Anniversary SPU (with Shibata tip) goes beyond this, but I haven’t heard it.

You have to be aware there are also folks who are devoted to the ‘old’ SPU sound, represented by the SPU Classic in the current line-up. This has a spherical tip that limits frequently range and detail retrieval, but offers a sonic presentation that some people adore.

Most of the other SPU’s are somewhere between this old (Classic) and modern (Royal) approach, using an elliptical stylus and different coil wires and suspension designs. In my opinion the earlier Anniversary models (A85, A90 and A95) offer the best of both these worlds. They were limited series and are long deleted, so only available on the used market. This obviously has a certain risk, but Ortofon does offer complete rebuilds for these models, at a price.