Speakers that sound great in terrible rooms

@papafrog:

So is there universal agreement that given $x to spend, one should spend some of that on basic room treatment thereby getting better sound out of whatever speaker is chosen?

Nothing in audiophile land is universal, but the acousticians and my own experience says yes. You don’t have to think of this as a percentage, but room treatment makes rooms more speaker friendly, more bass and subwoofer friendly as well. Many 2-way speakers will sound much bigger with room treatment. So much so a 3-way or subwoofer may be less important.

Timbral balance, imaging, transparency and resolution all are enhanced by a good room. I can highly recommend GIK acoustic products regardless of the cost of the rest of the equipment.

But the point of this thread was, in my mind, a thought exercise, what if these are not options? What then?

I got to thinking, I listen to my stereo indirectly a great deal of the time. I'm at my desk 90% of the time, in the kitchen area, but the stereo is in the living room.  Honestly it sounds really nice (for a humble system).

Must be the GIK Acoustics. :)

Best,

E

Hi @audiokinesis

Oh, I believe that different types of speaker dispersion patterns will sound different, and some may sound excellent in a hotel room. I have no doubt that bi-polar or cardioid or line sources are going to attack the problem of the hotel room very differently. I’m not "skeptical" but I’m inexperienced. I would love to hear your speakers at a show.

My comment is more general in that in a poor sounding room audiophiles often attempt to do detailed comparison between speakers or cables or whatnot when I can barely stand to be in the room.



Best,

E

One secret, which an ASC guy told me once, but I agree with, is listen to the music in the hallway. You can go up and down the hall and quickly pick out the well tuned rooms without ever having to walk in.

Honestly, I simply don't know how audiophiles audition most equipment in a hotel room, at all.

Toole theorizes that the ear is better able to decipher complex music signals when it is given "multiple looks" via multiple spectrally-correct reflections.

This is the best explanation I’ve heard, and is probably similar to cupping your ears.

Also why having a diffusor in the middle of the wall behind the speakers seems to have caught on.

The fact that omnis sound good in many "terrible" rooms is imo proof that, in THOSE rooms anyway, the issue was not the room itself.

Duke,

Having a pro in the thread is like cheating. :)

Can we define good though? I mean, I agree with the on/off axis description, but! What about imaging and detail?

How would omnis compare to dispersion limited speakers like big ESL’s, line arrays or horns with narrow beam pattern?  Pro acousticians I've read say that the better the dispersion control is, the less room treatment is required.

The Omni story flies in the face of this, unless we don't care about detail. (Yes, this is devil's advocacy)

Best,

E

Hey @bob540

Here's what I suggest.  Put your speakers 3' in front of you and listen to music.

The difference between that and what you hear at your chair is how good room acoustics can improve the sound.

If your speakers are too big, or you lack the space, pull up a chair near one. Listen to the detail and depth you can hear.

Hi @mammouthguy54

I like Dynaudio a lot, but they have different house curves built in. I’ve seen W and V shaped curves built into different models, so none of them are the speakers I've heard are true neutral speaker that lets me listen to a variety of music in a variety of volume levels without that Dynaudio personality.

When listening you have to take this into account. Make sure the house sound is something you can live with, which I guess is the same advice as for most speakers. :)

Best,

E

Here is a line array from ex-McIntosh speaker designer Roger Rusell I've wanted to hear.

I have to say I've heard current XRT speakers and really did not like them, but this is a much more simple implementation.

http://roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm#ids

I have to admit I've had a fascination with line sources all of my life. That and large ESL panels, and yet, I have ended up rather conventional.

@istvan1976

You are right, I've measured some of the same issues, and I wouldn't move without my speakers AND my acoustic supplies. :)

This audiophile's view was that speakers should be made for untreated living rooms or they should not be purchased. That the maker of the speaker should already have dealt with those "issues."

@alymere

I am very sad to say I never met the man in person. As I noted elsewhere, his work has been with me in some form or another for a very long time. More recently I liked going to his website, trying to understand his views of a Duelund crossover, as well as his work on measuring just how quickly thermal compression happens in a tweeter, and then he was retired, and soon after gone.

and this goes back to something else I've noticed. I simply cannot ignore a room.

I can ignore the air conditioner more easily.

Those audiophiles who can hear the nuance of equipment in a bad room, you are amazing, because I can barely listen.

Bass boom is separate issue. I don't know what speaker designs can mitigate that, if any. I use large corner traps to address bass reverb time.

The best sound in a hotel room, by far, was the top end Vandersteens with built in bass EQ.

I think this thread was not clear.  What I meant was, what are your speakers for difficult rooms?