Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)


I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


hilde45

Showing 9 responses by twoleftears

So what's the result of the basement shoot-out?  Inquiring minds want to know...
You'll be very hard pressed to surpass the Fritz.  Wonderful top end and remarkable bass extension for size.  Really no need to look further.
Brighter tweeters can give the impression of relaying more of what's going on in the top end, but one really needs to let one's ears adjust to a soft dome.  Quality Scanspeak tweeters are really very revealing, but just not in the same way as metal 
Besides one of Fritz's models, look at the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand.  It's a magical speaker that produces no treble-itis.  In your sized room it should be plenty.
Let me repeat my recommendation of VA Beethoven Baby Grand, which is a relatively short and slim tower speaker, and which will definitely not cause your ears any stress.  A used pair can be picked up at a very good price, as there is a recent revision out.  See also @Steve
1. If I understand correctly, the Fritz Carbon's did not cause any problems.  Based on that, the VA's won't either.  As the Fritz's don't seem to be your be-all end-all, the VA's would definitely be worth auditioning, as they are a very fine speaker cut, broadly speaking, from the same acoustic cloth.

2. I'm not sure what the difference is between, say, a 14" monitor on a 26" stand vs. a 40" tower.  At all events, the VA's have adjustable spikes, so I suppose you could always tilt them a little down.
In his 7-series speakers, Fritz uses 4 tweeters.  The beryllium obviously in the Carrera; a less expensive Scanspeak in the Carbon, a ring radiator in the REV, and a Scanspeak Revelator in the LS (with Illuminator woofer).  I heard the Carreras at CAF; I'd love to hear the LS.
I agree with @b_limo 's post back on page 1.  Many speakers today are designed with a tipped up treble aka too bright. In the showroom this comes across as loads of detail.  At home over the long term it becomes fatiguing.  It has to do with the choice of tweeter, the design of the crossover, and other factors.  Your space isn't helping but it's not the major culprit.  Echoing b_limo, when you find a speaker you really like it'll have a soft dome tweeter or possibly a beryllium implemented verrrry carefully.
Unlike the Paradigm, the two best implementations of beryllium that I've heard have been in the Fritz Carrera and the Salk Song3 BeAT.