Speaker phase and timing

Viridian, I take it you're either not a Wilson/Krell/or Nordost fan or that the "Q" in Q-Sound stands for neverending Quest for sound that will never happen. I heard the CD in an audio showroom, where the Q-Sound worked. The dog was off in the distance to my right. There was another part where the sound of a thunder cloud traveled from behind my seat position and moved toward the front of the room.

You don't need phase coherent speaker to get the effect. Careful setup, measured to the fraction of the inch, so do it. That is assuming you have a symmetrical room.

the most obvious cause is your speakers are wired out of phase. make sure positive is to positive and negative is to negative at the speaker and amp end.

The room is ridiculously asymmetrical...

on the rare occaision the speakers can be wired wrong at the factory, in which case you will need to switch them until you get it right.

Thanks Gregadd and Onhwy61. I'll experiment with the system. The room is probably the limiting factor.

A strong early reflection or diffraction can ruin the soundstaging. The usual suspects are the sidewall first reflection zones and anything between (or between and behind) the speakers.

I use that Roger Waters disc to fine-tune speaker distance from the center of the listening position. I can measure and set up to within about 1/4 inch or maybe even 1/8 inch, but the final microskooch forward or backward is done by ear.

Duke

Duke

Get out your Stereophile Test CD, or a test record that has a phasing test track. I know that Sterophile Test CD number two has this, and maybe others. There is a track with a Fender bass guitar being played out of phase and then in phase. When everything is right that guitar snaps to center on the in phase track. I think this is an accurate means of determining if you are out of phase, or if room acoustics are somehow shifting your image. A couple of weeks ago, I discovered, by playing the test CD and the test record, that my cartridge was out of phase! Strange things happen, I guess. I can even imagine the factory messing up the internal wiring of a speaker, although it's hard to imagine Wilson doing it.

Speaker, listener, and furniture placement have more to do with imaging than your equipment.

Spousal friendly placements with the speakers or your chair just a foot or two off the wall behind them will not be good. A television between the speakers is not good.

You might describe your physical setup in more detail.

ditto the speaker placement measurement....if possible to within a 1/8 of inch,( toe angles ) ..... front wall to speaker- within a 1/2 if possible ....speaker placement as you know, is a BIGGY.. keep workin it, brent

Thanks again -- that's more great advice. I'll work on speaker placement and reflections. The room is a living room, therefore far from ideal: hardwood floors and rugs, fireplace to the left, window wall to the right, large asymmetrical openings at all 4 corners, and a 65-inch RPTV between the speakers (blanket over the TV makes a huge difference.) I guess I shouldn't expect much better sound than what I'm getting. Eventually I'll get a room that will justify the equipment. But in the meantime, I'll keep working it.

I have on occasion actually heard the dog barking behind me. I haven't listened to that cd in a while but I think it is terrific. Not just the special effects but the music as well. When the monkey gets up to answer the phone, that phone is ringing in another room.
The Soul Cages by Sting is another in Q sound. I didn't know this the first time I listened to it. There are sounds coming from way outside the speakers. It freaked me out until I looked at the liner notes.
Something different, I dig it.

Slightly off topic, but I love Roger Waters solo work! The reunification last summer of Pink Floyd was a mind blowing experience for me. Man I'd love to see those guys go on tour again.