Sound quality differences in streamers

Can I get somewhat satisfying sound from an under $1,000 streamer (often mentioned are $200 to $400 cheap streamers)?

@fleschler  Sure you can.  A Bluesound Node with and external LPS from LHY, SBooster, or Teddy Pardo will get you pretty decent sound and a user-friendly app for under $1000, but you’ll also want a Qobuz or Tidal subscription to go with it. 

And I don’t really care how many people believe one way or another.  The only person who seems to believe that majority rules on this issue is the person who made the statement. 

@mdalton Yeah, the fact that the vast majority of people here agree streamers make a difference versus the relatively few examples you’re able to dig up with the opposite view doesn’t indicate anything whatsoever.  🙄🤪  Deny, deny, deny.  You’re in the vast minority here for a reason whether you wanna accept that or not.  If you’re right then there a thousands of us kidding ourselves that we hear differences, or maybe — just maybe — it’s you who can’t hear a difference.  Which one of those sounds more logical and likely?  I care not whether someone hears a difference in streamers or not, but for you to tell people there is no difference because you can’t hear it and that that may stop someone from just trying for themselves because they might actually believe you is the bigger problem.  And yeah, when the vast majority feels more one way than the other I tend to believe them more than the minority.  Silly me. 

“Anyone who’s compared a $400 streamer to a $2k+ streamer will tell you there’s a very significant difference between the two.”

That's a laughable fallacy—there are numerous counterexamples.  Here is one. 

@lanx0003  Well good for you — you found a few examples so you must be right. 🙄  There are people who “believe” cables don’t make a difference, but the majority experience otherwise.  Likewise there are hundreds here who’d strongly disagree with you, and you’re in a huge minority that should tell you something.  But you keep banging that drum and using whatever crap streamer you have and the rest of us with good systems and ears who can hear the difference will live on happily. 

@devinplombier  Of course the better the DAC can clean/reclock the incoming signal the better, but even the best DACs benefit from a better incoming signal.  Nobody is gonna feed a $20k DAC with a $400 streamer or a $100 USB cable uncles they’ve got a screw loose.

I would agree that non-data "noise" such as, say, SMPS noise can affect sound quality if and when allowed to enter the analog realm, if you will (usually meaning your DAC’s output section); but would you say that that noise can affect sound quality while within the digital realm

@devinplombier  It’s well known that adding an external LPS to streamers that don’t have an internal one meaningfully improves their performance, so yes in that way it affects sound quality in the digital realm.  Another example would be the use of galvanic isolation in better and more pricey streamers and DDCs.  If noise didn’t interfere with the signal in the digital realm then neither of these things would make a difference.  The better/cleaner the digital signal is going into the DAC the better otherwise transports/streamers wouldn’t sound any different, so in that way things like decreasing noise and using better clocks in streamers (and transports) improves sound quality.

As far as mdalton, he’s on record as saying there’s no point in spending more than $2k on a streamer, which is just silly among most anyone here who’s heard one and speaks to his inability to hear those differences.  While that’s fine for him, coming here and possibly discouraging others from even trying a pricier streamer by telling people there’s no difference is a disservice to those who may not suffer from his hearing disability, and that’s the real problem.  My point is just try for yourself and if you don’t hear an improvement with a better/more expensive streamer then fine, but for most people here it doesn’t play out that way, which is why companies like Innuos, Aurender, Grimm, Antipodes, etc. exist and thrive — it’s not because we’re all fooling ourselves here or because we wanna just throw our $$$ away for no reason.

The logical fallacies abound from our friends.  “Anyone who’s compared a $400 streamer to a $2k+ streamer…”  This is called the “appeal to authority” fallacy, and it’s not even a good authority.

@mdalton  No, it’s called most of are capable of using our ears and can easily hear the improvements better and/or more expensive streamers can provide despite you not being able to and despite your one example of an audiogon member who apparently can’t either.  We get it, you’re a streamer denier despite trying to say you’re not and you’re in the vast, vast  minority here but obviously the majority of us are just deluding ourselves.  Rrrriiiiiiight.  But you just keep tilting at windmills and we’ll just keep making decisions based on our ears. 

As far as streamers, the way I see it is deciding which application to use to send an email. Regardless which one you choose, the message should arrive

@johnsmith55  Yeah you would think that, but unfortunately that’s not the way it works in audio.  Unlike emails, Word documents, etc. audio is very susceptible to things like noise and timing, and better streamers employ better power supplies, cases, clocks, galvanic isolation, etc. to minimize those things degrading the digital signal.  Anyone who’s compared a $400 streamer to a $2k+ streamer will tell you there’s a very significant difference between the two.  Believe me I know it doesn’t make intuitive sense, but it is what it is.  

I should clarify my interweb signal which, due to my “remote” location and where my listening room is situated is via WiFi only, no hardwired connections. So cleaning the signal with line switches or Ethernet is not possible. I will be relying on the ability of the streamer to handle to WiFi signal and pass it along to a DAC.

You should at least try something like a Wi-Fi extender or Mesh system so you can run an Ethernet cable from that to your streamer.  Many people here have done that and found it to sound better than letting the streamer process the Wi-Fi signal.  I believe it’s due to the Wi-Fi receiver in the streamer degrading performance due to noise, poor quality, or whatever, and hardwiring the streamer to an extender or Mesh node gets around this.  Either way, it’s relatively cheap to try and well worth the effort given the potential benefits. 

While there are a few naysayers here who think streamers can’t sound different just like there are naysayers here who say cables don’t make a difference, the vast, vast majority here find significant improvements as they move up to better and usually more expensive streamers.  Suffice it to say it’s well worth your while to at least demo a better streamer and use your own ears to decide.