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Sonus faber Cremona M with Prima Luna DiaLogue One

I currently own a Prima Luna DiaLogue One integrated amplifier (around 38 watts in ultra-linear mode with EL-34 tubes) driving a pair of Sonus faber Toy Towers (8 ohms, 89db/2.83v). I ended up replacing the stock EL-34's with Gold Lion KT-88's (Russian re-issue), which added quite a bit of power and control, and I have to say that I love the combination.

Source is an Oppo 95, a Squeezebox Touch, and a Pro-Ject RPM 5.1SE. Cables are mostly Nordost (Brahma and Vishnu power cord, Heimdall and Red Dawn LS interconnects, plus Audioquest speaker cable).

I am contemplating upgrading to the Sonus faber Cremona M floorstander, which I always loved and was never able to afford, until now. These are 4 ohm and 91db/2.83V, and, to my eyes, one of the most beautiful speakers I've seen, regardless of price.

I spoke to Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio, among other people with experience when it comes to both Sonus faber and Prima Luna, and everybody assures me that the combination should not be a problem at all. My room is small (second bedroom in a 1500 sq/feet condo) and my listening preferences include classical/jazz (mostly orchestral, but also love violin/string concertos) and lots of soundtracks (big Ennio Morricone fan), but I also love hard/progressive rock (anything from Deep Purple/Yes to Iron Maiden and contemporary doom metal and things like Mogwai). In other words: eclectic.

Do you think it'd be wise of me to upgrade the speakers? I love the Prima Luna and would not really like to "upgrade" that as well. Not to mention, I do not want to incur in an additional cost if I end up spending thousands for the Cremonas...

Some people even mentioned that the Cremonas should be easier to drive than the Toy Towers, but I do not fully understand the reasoning behind this.

Any users with a similar combination of speaker/amp?Any advice and feedback is appreciated.
beyondarkness
11 responses Add your response
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,229 posts
 
I would be more concerned with whether your smallish bedroom is a good setting for the larger SF loudspeaker. The speakers need space between them and the listener, plus space behind them.
rar1's avatar
rar1
1,784 posts
 
So, I have a Prima Luna PL5 (power amp) with a Musical Fidelity CD PRE 24 preamp/ cd player and Opera 'Platea' speakers. Opera, Vienna Acoustic, and Sonus Faber are similar enough in terms of sound, tone, and efficiency,

You will be totally OK with the move up to the Cremona M. Whether you should do it or not, is another matter. If these are speakers you have always wanted and you can afford them without getting a 2nd mortgage on the condo or eating pb & j for a year, then why not.

That is probably all I would upgrade at this point. See how you like the Cremonas with what you have and if after 6 months you want to do something, then consider it.

Rich
luna
235 posts
 
Forget it! I tried this speaker and it needs CJ Premier 350 to to tame the bass! If you don't mind undefined bass, then it should be OK.
beyondarkness OP
24 posts
 
Thanks all for the feedback. Luna, what amp did you try the Cremona M's with?

You can see images of my current room and set-up here:
http://estebanmedaglia.blogspot.com/

I could get the Cremona M's brand new at a GREAT price, and am able to do it effortlessly for the first time in my life (to answer Rich's comment). It would be a happy day indeed for me. I wanted this speaker for at least 10 years, so I'm really tempted. But I'm a newbie when it comes to fully understanding what makes one speaker more sensitive over another one. The Toys are 89db and the Cremonas 91db. But one is 8ohm and the other 4ohm. The Prima Luna has speaker terminals for both, so that shouldn't be a problem. Also, I am not a
bass freak". More of a mid-range guy, but I like the bass to be there when required. The nice folks at Upscale Audio / Prima Luna assure me that speakers with a bigger woofer are easier to drive. I asked about the Cremona Auditor stand-mount, for example, and they said the floorstander would be easier to drive. I remember an issue of Stereophile (in the manufacturer's comments section) where Kevin Deal even said that he got good results with a ProLogue (lower end, with much less beefy transformers) amplifier and a Sonus faber Stradivari! So, I'm confused about this. Any more light you can shed on the subject would be appreciated.

(alternatively, I thought about selling the Toy Towers AND the Prima Luna amp, if REALLY needed, and trading that for a more powerful amp... but I'd rather not have to part with the Prima Luna... I truly love that amp...)
luna
235 posts
 
My amp is Conrad Johnson Premier 350, 350watts solid state! I don't think smallish tube amp can damp the wooofers of the Cremona M. I remember someone says how to check if the amp is not good enough for the speaker is when you see the woofers moving in and out. That is showing it have problem damping it!
beyondarkness OP
24 posts
 
I haven't made up my mind yet, and unfortunately it looks like I won't have the luxury of an in-home audition. So this would be a big risk on my part if I place the order and my amp ends-up not being able to properly drive the Cremonas...

Anybody else that would like to comment and/or add to this thread? Nobody else has any experience with a similar Prima Luna and SF combo?
egoben
56 posts
 
Personally, I would spend some extra money and time to make sure your amp really works with the Cremona M's. Meaning, if you can't do an in home audiotion, you should take your amp to the place that sells the speakers, often hifi stores have small rooms aswell as big. Or at least try them with a similar tube amplifier. If that isn't possible either, maybe you won't lose too much money if you decide the new speakers actually weren't a good match? Practically new Sonus Faber's should be worth quite a lot even second hand.
mikirob
955 posts
 
You should listen to Kevin at Upscale, he is a straight-shooter, does not mislead folks, is truly an expert on Primaluna as well as Sonus Faber. In addition he is one of the best tube gurus around. I did buy my Primaluna Dialogue 1 from him. I have no axe to grind and I am in no way affiliated with Kevin or Upscale.
mikirob
955 posts
 
I should also mention that I do not own Sonus Faber Cremona speakers, but I have listened to this combo at my brother's house. My Dialogue One, his Cremona. Excellent match. Mid-range and above superb. Bass very good and sure a big SS would give you a small gain there at the expense of everything else most likely. I'm not a SS guy, bottle head all the way. My brother usually pairs his Cremona's with Leben CS600, a fine integrated tube amp; he also has Harbeth HL5s and some other cool stuff. iit sounds from your comments above, you will like the Luna/Cremona combo.
antman
27 posts
 
I have no problem with my SF Cremona (originals) and PL Dialogue Prem Int-Amp.. Sound wonderfull using Cyro-GL KT88 and Mazda 12au7.
But I will have my Newly Release PL Diaogue Premium Mono-Block and Pre-amp next week. Hope that will be an huge improvement.
jakegt3
40 posts
 
I have the Cremona M and drive them with the ARC VS115 (120W/channel). Both excel in midrange reproduction, so I find them to be an excellent combination. My listening room is medium sized (13x24), but I generally don't listen any louder than about 85 dB SPL, and it's mostly classical with some jazz. The VS115 has more than enough power for me.

Your amp has about 5 dB less maximum power output, but if your room is pretty small and you don't listen that loud, then I think you'll be fine power-wise.

I find the Cremona's to be pretty revealing of amplifier differences. The solid state amps I've heard with these speakers tend to sound a bit too bright and "etched" for my taste.
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