Davidd99 what are you using for tubes in the Phono stage of your Rogue. |
OK, isn't this getting out of hand? You both are two of the most knowledgeable guys on this site. I'd hate to see either of you not here anymore. Why resort to the foul language and threats? We can always disagree, but it doesn't have to become a blood feud. Am I right? Can't we just forget this thing, move on, and enjoy our systems and the music? |
Golly,and I got in trouble for saying Hooters! UU |
mburnstin.I would not insult anyone,s inteligence by making statment,s that I can not back up.I have heard many of the MIT in DBT and its from these DBT that I make the statments I make.They sound no better than some of the Audioquest OPAL,Jps Supperconductor that are in the 300/400 range.Comparing up against Nordst Quattro Fil and MIT Mi-350 REF CVTerminator Tara Labs the one,Wireworld Gold Eclipse III.The Wireworlds are the best of the lot and Nordst ANd MIT are in the bottom with the Opal AND JPS.Bring on your best tell me where you want to meet and lets do this DBT.Sosince your are void of any obvious inteligence i will dismiss you are one who has buyers remorse.I feel sorry when we do these DBT and some guys walk out tail between thier legs with thier big money cable.The only positive is they are then able to sell thier stuff as you can see there is no shortage of the stuff in the classifieds buy a better cable and have money left over even after selling thier overpriced stuff at .25 Cents on the dollar.Enjoy the music. |
Avalon recommened NBS Monitor lll's to Robert Harley of the Absolute Sound. See his reveiw, Nbs completely wiped out MIT. FEB?MARCH issue. |
tm12 Have you listened to all the MIT cables for you to make such a complete assessment of the product line? Your opinion without DBT is , while entertaining, worthless and irrelevant. You are dismissed. |
phil, for a child you sure have a lot of money. |
Cornfedboy, enjoy your Avalon junk if it makes you happy. Here's my prediction: one day you'll wake up and sell that junk for 20 cents on the dollar. |
phill, you must be an IDIOT to think that accuracy is perceptable solely by those who produce or engineer recordings. that means that one can hear the accuracy of a recording only if the speakers through which it is replayed are the same as those used as monitors by those at the most critical point in the recording process. the electronics used in the recording chain, of course, are also important. hence, from your thoroughly IDIOTIC point of view, a recording produced with spectral gear using avalon speakers as monitors, would be accurate only if played back through the same electronics with the same transducers as those used to record it. hold on a minute, that means that we would have to trust the guys at the stores tbonephile mentions to sell us something that will produce accurate sound, notwithstanding their complete lack of knowledge as to what a "musical" system sounds like. now i'm confused. maybe, just maybe you're not an IDIOT. maybe you've found the audio equal of the rosetta stone, or even synthesized, at last, the unified field theory. so please, please phill, you audio god you, tell us what we're to buy to assure our systems are both accurate reproducers of recordings and "musical" too. BTW, i have owned 3 different pairs of avalons and now have eidolons in my system. i have heard the whole avalon line numerous times mated with spectral/mit. IMHO, the spectral/mit stuff is ok with avalons but, auditioned side-by-side with other high-power ss electronics (e.g., rowland, accuphase and boulder), sounds pale, lifeless, dry and veiled. here's my prediction (feel free to write it down) within the next year or year and a half, you will see fewer and fewer quality highend dealers pairing avalons with spectral electronics. what's the point, now that the radian hc is history? |
Tbonephile, stop repeating what you read. What the h*ll do you know about accuracy? The only people who know about accuracy are those who make the recordings. You don't, so spare us your idiotic comments. Put down the magazines and sales literature and do some listening. |
Spectral in my mind is the most detailed and "accurate" stuff out there. Spectral systems resolve more detail then anything else made. They are as neutral as you can get. They don't add any euphonius quality to the sound as Conrad-Johnson do. But because they are so anaylitcal, their not the most pleasing things to listen to. You hear everything, but theres one thing thats lacking from Spectral gear and thats tamber. This is the reason why people switch to tubes, because of the more life like tone that comes with tubes. I think a good alternitve to Spectral is Goldmund. Goldmund is just as much an engineering marvel (Spectral gear have bandwidth of DC-15mhz Goldmund is also very close both of them are VERY FAST with rise times of around 240 NANOSECONDS) but the Goldmunds have the tonality that is missing from the Spectral. If you are an audiophile it is good and well to buy Spectral as they are terrific value for the price. They are engineered by Keith O Johnson, who does all the reference recordings, which are also recorded on custom made Spectral gear. (explains why they sound so neutral, but so like lifeless) And the parts quality is much better then an equivilent priced Levinson or Krell. Infact the Spectral SDR-2000 D/A which sells for $8800 has the same parts cost as the $15,590 Mark Levinson 30.6. So thats just food for thought |
TBONEPHILE.....stop sticking up for spectral in all these threads and go out and buy the stuff already or at least try it out. How much back up do you need? just make a decision and post the results because I really want to hear what you think of spectral. And PHILL knock it off. Or at least tell us what you have and why it's so good (in a dignified manner) So you at least have something of value to add to the conversation. If you present your knowledge in a mature way we may see your points. |
Phil, I would like to hear what speakers you think are a lot better for a lot less money. |
mburnstein.If you have something Inteligent to add do so.What i need to grow up because i state a true fact. |
Amen to the plea for rational debate without insults! As someone who grew pretty old before the Internet came along, I've often wondered, "What's happened to civility?" Is it supposed to be cool to be as insulting as you can manage to be? It's nice that many in this Audiogon forum think not. |
Phill, If you read my message again you will see that I did not recommend that Tbone listen to me our you. What I said is that he should try to compare and listen for himself. I don't have a problem with us disagreeing on how any component sounds and I appreciate a constructive debate as it can be a learning process, but let's all be people first and drop the insults. None of us hear it the same and one has to decide for themselves on what components to spend their hard earned money on. Enjoy! Tom |
Phill_06896 Tml2 Grow up! |
High end audio is no different than other high cost consumer products. While there may be synergy between manufacturer's products (Wilson & Krell, Magnepan & Audio Research, Avalon & Spectral, etc), marketing factors are also a major influence in what dealer carries what product lines. There are only a small number of high profile, high end manufacturers and within any given market, an even smaller number of high end dealers. If you're Krell, is it good business to sell from a dealer that also carries Spectral, Mark Levinson and Rowland? Why would Audio Research sell from a dealer who carries Conrad-Johnson? It would be great for the consumer to be able to go into one place and hear every major brand, but direct competition is not in the manufacturers', nor the dealers', best interest. BTW, this arrangement is not some diabolical conspiracy, it's simply good business practice. |
Trcnetmsncom, if you want to waste money because you're an idiot, that is your business. To recommend, however, that others waste money, is irresponsible. There are plenty of products that deliver a more musical sound than Avalon for far less money. Being a musician doesn't guarantee that you hear well, nor does it guarantee that you can recognize value. |
Hello Tbone, While I respect the rights of others to offer an opinion I would like to offer mine. Don't listen to Phill. The Eidolon in IMHO is a GREAT transducer. No it's not perfect but no speaker will ever be. I compared it to speakers costing up to 3 times as much and overall for my room, taste in music, and the priorites I listen for in reproduced music it did more things right than anything I've compared it to. Yes there are other great speakers that others might prefer, but to call the Eidolons junk is just absurd. What's my reference? Now at the age of 42 I've been a professional musician for thirty years and have been around acoustic instruments literally everyday of my life since the age of six. Please don't listen to me or anybody else, try to go out and listen for yourself and let your ears be the judge. Good luck, Tom |
I have briefly heard the system you have made inquiry on with some very nice success. I also heard the Avalons/MIT powered with Rowland and/or Audio Research. As with any system, you must listen for yourself, and preferably in your listening space. I personally have attained a remarkably musical presentation with Eidelons as my transducer. It is amazingly revealing, with a huge soundstage, yet it does not forfeit the delineation which offers the accuracy I demand. This repliclation was realized only after much experimentation with eletronics and cabling. If , you are after a truth in tonality without sacrificing musicality you must work at achieving the most from your components, regardless of manufacture or the hype that accompanies them(positive or negative. I have heard fabulous sound from speakers or electronics in one venue that was mediocre, at best in another. As others have suggested, try to use your own ears and tastes. There are no magic bullets and no system, at least none that I have heard, can reproduce music flawlessly. Good luck, and try to enjoy. One last thought. Request home trials. Some dealers are willing. |
Phill_06896, get help. Why use this forum to bash people? You're entitled to your opinion, but there's more positive ways to express yourself. |
Tbonephile, Goodwins Audio, Overture Audio and Progressive Audio wouldn't know a musical sounding system if they heard one. When will you learn that most dealers, especially the large ones, are simply merchants interested in SALES and don't know a damn thing about audio. If they did, they wouldn't carry joke equipment like Spectral and Avalon. If you think that junk sounds good, you need to do more listening. |
If your looking for cables that work well with tubes amps look no further than www.coincidentspeaker.com.They make anything by MIT look like yesterdays news.They are the best i have heard.And whats this nonsense about ultra hi end.this is just the biggest cable scam going MIT is overpriced by a factor of 100.I will put the Coincident up against it and put forth a heafty sum of cash that it will trounce anything MIT has or will ever make. |
I like MIT with my Krell and Maggies, very much. MIT doesn't really just "smooth" per se, it resolves more dynamic contrast than any other cable, period. I mean that...show me another cable that is more dynamic (that is, there is more loudness difference between the very quietest to very loudest sounds on any recording). There aren't any other cables that do this as well, I've tried/owned a bunch. It makes all the instruments in the soundstage much more closely approach the "weight" that they have in real life. Also, it doesn't really "roll off" the treble much at all. What it DOES do, is prevent the treble range from leading the mid/low range in time. This effect is the primary reason tube amp lovers can't stand solid state amps, IMO: They haven't heard solid state with decent MIT cables. I have a tube amp, too, and have heard this effect...the problem is that the MIT speaker cables I have don't work well with the tube amp, but one of the MIT interconnects almost does...depending on the speaker cable I use with it. And yet, some of the silver cables I've tried/owned also "almost work" with the tube amp.... |
