Some observations from a former skeptic - and a question

Thanks all for the feedback.  It has been an interesting journey and I’m grateful there are experienced forum participants who can offer feedback in a collaborative environment.

@ghdprentice - noted on purchasing pre-owned cables. I think I’ll steer clear, though I will note the Odin 1s are from authorized Nordost dealers who took them in on trade for Odin 2. 

@ozzy - fair point. I did not compare my Niagara 5000 w/ a dragon cable into it or out of it. But, I did try some Hurricanes and Tornados when demoing things and did not find them materially better like I did when I went upstream on the Nordost system.  Since so many here report positive experiences with the dragon level cables, I’ve no doubt I haven’t experienced the best of that unit, but I’m also not wanting to reverse course to now go all in on AQ cables.  But, it is an intriguing idea.

The system at the lake home is much simpler: Sonus Faber Olympica Nova IIIs, and an NAD M33 integrated amp w/ built in streamer. It’s quite musical (particularly given the price point), but I’m not feeling like I want to add $20k in cables to it. (Yet).

Kind regards to all,

@soix 

glad you’re still here and posting!

For those of you who have done a dedicated circuit -something I’m considering despite the hassle - what did you put in the wall?  Standard 14/2 wire or ?

And, what upgrade, if anything, did you use for the receptacle?

Best,

@ahuvia

I can appreciate being a skeptic and I’m fine with your position.  If you read my original post - I had done multiple demos previously - with no discernible difference. Conceptually, it didn’t make sense to me either. I did not expect positive results so I came in to this with no confirmation bias.

That said - the differences in an a/b comparison were pretty easy to hear. No, it wasn’t a blind test but I will politely suggest that you would have heard a difference - it wasn’t difficult to perceive.

I would also submit that one problem with a blind test is that you’re required to identify which is which correctly. The test can be failed while still perceiving  differences.  Of course, different is not always better. But let’s start with the exploration of whether or not there are differences. 

As a fellow skeptic, I think you would appreciate how many pieces of gear (some were considered state of the art and in an exalted price category) I have auditioned and passed on because there might have been a difference but I wasn’t sure - or it didn’t merit the spend.

I’m at peace with these purchases.

Best,

@ossicle2brain 

Did you actually read my original post and follow up comments?  

I’m well educated and frequently discuss confirmation bias in my own work. I started this journey having already proved to myself that power cables don’t make a difference. I had actually done the work previously and concluded:No difference.

But, my sense in reading through your responses is that in being a skeptic, a position I was in and can respect - you and @ahuvia are not open to doing this work. You “know what you know” so there can’t be a difference. You conclude that it must be confirmation bias for us - ignoring that my bias going in was I had already proved to myself previously why bother. 

The difference between us is that I decided to do the work again out of respect for others viewpoints and in recognition that I “don’t know what I don’t know” as I am not a materials scientist. And, I came out the other end of the journey pleasantly surprised.

Lastly, there is a well known power cable and conditioner manufacturer who publishes white papers and their measured results of their power cords. It’s now established that the effects of power cables can be measured. 

To the question of where does it end?  Hopefully here for me but I remain open to the possibilities.

Peace.

To all - I started this thread to share an experience which greatly surprised me and which I thought might be interesting to some and perhaps encouraging to others. It certainly has generated some interest…

@ahuvia 

Thank you for the thoughtful and respectful post.  Our youngest is pursuing her dual PhDs in Ann Arbor. Fun town but we rarely get to visit as she’s pretty busy as you can imagine.

Just to reiterate a few things - I respect your position as a skeptic. Your original post implied little room for you being open to the idea that there were perceivable differences. But your follow up post clarifies this. 

As you note, I did try to remove those elements that might have caused my own cognitive bias. Aware of my own shortcomings here, I try to be somewhat careful with money.  However, I will politely reject the notion that I was clouding my bias to to garner social status. Smiling as I write this, I would not spend money on cables to boost my status on Audiogon forums. I belong to no audio clubs. No one but my wife knows what I’ve purchased (brands or amount spent) and all the affirmation I get from her on these purchases is “really? Whatever.” :) Yes, she indulges my fun.

@ossicle2brain The flip switch concept is interesting as a aid in this  - I never thought of that.  Of course, there would still be a sizable pause between cables as equipment should be shut off to avoid the big pulse. Further, my digital gear reboots after losing power. 

I’ll put some thought to a different way to do this. If I could find a way to make a high quality recording, I’d happily post those files to this forum without identifying which is which and let the forum participants weigh in. Unfortunately, I lack high quality recording gear and I don’t think going upstream there is a good spend, but if I can borrow some, I’ll do so.

Lastly, I reinforce the idea that differences in these cables can be successfully measured. I won’t dispute that there is massive subjectivity in what is good, but our ears are relatively sensitive instruments. Why can a power cord make a difference despite all the mileage to the house and the cabling in our walls?

As previously noted, I’m not a materials scientist - nor an electrical engineer but it’s worth noting that electricity does not actually flow through our cables like water through a pipe. Perhaps the best analogy I can come up with is that electricity is more akin to  sympathetic resonance across all connections. In this construct, it’s easier to conceptualize why every segment of cable acts as both transmitter and antenna.  

I was still highly skeptical going in to this - and doubts re-enter my mind. But, I’ll kick back and listen to some music. It seems to be sounding better than ever.  If it’s placebo - so be it. It sounds damn good!

Peace.

@ahuvia 

Her degrees will be in biomedical engineering and computational analytics.  Yes, she’s a nerd, but our entire family is as well - she wears it well.  

I’d enjoy connecting and will keep that in mind. I can just imagine my daughter’s eye roll when I suggest I’m going to meet up with another audio buff to compare power cables.  Then again, perhaps the curious engineer in her would come to the fore. But I would take a fair amount of good natured abuse from her and my wife…

If I recall correctly, there is a pretty nice audio dealer in AA.  You might casually wander in there and see if they would perform a blind demo for you. It would be in their interest to do so. You might come away reinforced in your viewpoint, or not.

Best,

 @alexatpos 

I appreciate your experience here. I’ll likely continue with Valhalla 2 since I’m so far down the road.

Incidentally, the Nordost loom is not feeding an NAD amp - but T+A and Auralic G2.1 series digital stack. The NAD is my gear at our 2nd home and I was mentioning that I didn’t want to go through upgrading cables in that system too as it doesn’t really merit the spend.

Best,

I thought I’d close the loop on this. I decided to purchase an Odin 1 cable (from an authorized dealer - it has a warranty) to complete the loom.  I have it going to my amp with the Valhalla 2s going to everything else.

I haven’t done an a/b comparison so I can only speculate here. Placebo or not, the system is sounding very, very good - better than I remember it.

It has me now thinking about my digital cables again. I had previously upgraded the digital cables between my streamer, processor and DAC to Audioquest Thunderbird. Now that I’m in the Nordost ecosystem, I should probably audition the Valhalla 2 digital cables. 

I’ll report back later.