Wemfan,
We haven't heard from you in awhile; you must be too busy just enjoying your new system. I'd really like to hear your impressions, though.
Thanks,
Tim |
Wemfan,
The HDMI cable attached between the Oppo's HDMI input (will display as #3 'HDMI Back' once all has been hooked up properly) and the Directv box's HDMI output sends both your satellite signals audio and video to the Oppo 105. The Oppo has a built in decoder for Dolby digital 7.1 surround. You'll need to run an rca cable from the analog audio output on the back of the Oppo for the center channel to the rca audio input labeled 'CH 2' on the back of your A31 amp (the 'Dedicated Stereo' rca or xlr outputs on the Oppo's back panel carry the left + right front surround channel signal for surround sound and the regular stereo left +right signals when playing music. Connect the left 'Dedicated Stereo' output to the A31's 'Ch 3' input and the right output to the A31's 'Ch 1' input). You'll only be using 3 channels, or 3.1 channels if you use a sub, but that's fine. You'll just be hearing the front left + right and center channels.
The Oppo also has a built in QDEO video processor that will take the incoming 1080i satellite signal, up-convert it to 1080p and optimize it before sending it to your Panasonic plasma's HDMI input #1. You'll need to make sure both the Panasonic and Oppo are configured properly on their respective internal menu settings but I will explain these once the physical hookups are done.
Later,
Tim |
Hi Wemfan,
Sorry, had some things to do today and just got back. Anyway, here's how to hookup the audio once the Hdmi cables are hooked up:
1.Connect the 'Dedicated Stereo' Right audio output to the 'CH 1' audio input on the Parasound A31 with either a singlxlr or rca cable (xlr ispreferred if you have it).
2..Connect the 'Dedicated Stereo' Left audio output to the 'CH 3' audio input on the Parasound A31 with either a singlxlr or rca cable (xlr ispreferred if you have it).
3. Connect spkr wire between the spkr jacks under the A31's 'CH 1' label to your KEF LS50 located to the right side of your plasma.
4.Connect spkr wire between the spkr jacks under the A31's 'CH 3' label to your KEF LS50 located to the left side of your plasma.
5. Connect an rca cable between the 'Center Out' on the back of the Oppo and the rca input on the back of the A31 labeled 'CH 2'
6 Connect spkr wire between the spke jacks under the A31's 'CH 2' label to your KEF center channel spkr located under your plasma.
7. Press the 'Home' button on your Oppo's remote.
8. Scroll right to the 'Setup' icon (last one on right) and press 'Enter'.
9. Send me a p.m. with your phone# when you've completed the above and I'll call you and we'll go forward from step#8 on the phone. It'll be much quicker.
Thanks,
Tim
|
Wemfan,
I will respond to your hookup questions tomorrow. Going from memory your system consists of the following:
Panasonic VT65" plasma tv.
Oppo 105
KEF LS50 speakers
KEF center channel
I don't remember if you bought a subwoofer or not. Here's how to hookup the Directtv,Oppo 105 and VT65:
Connect an HDMI cable from the Directv 'Genie' or small 'client server' to the 'HDMI 1' input on the Oppo. Connect a 2nd HDMI cable (the 105 comes with a 6ft HDMI cable) from the Oppo's HDMI output to the Panasonic hdtv's 'HDMI 1' input. This hookup allows the satellite video signal to be processed by the 105's very good Qdeo internal video processor before being passed along to your plasma. The picture quality is excellent with this setup
I'm sorry but I've gotta go now. But I'll go over the audio setup tomorrow as soon as I'm able. If you have a subwoofer, you're goingto need an rca cable from the Oppo to the subwoofer and 3 rca cables from the Oppo to the Parasound(if you want the best audio, you should get one pair of xlr cables to run from Oppo to Parasound amp and just get a single rca audio cable for the Oppo to your amp). You'll need speaker wires: Parasound to left and right front speakers and center channel speaker, too. Please have these cables in the correct lengths by tomorrow afternoon and I'll detail the audio hookup. I won't be able to reply until late tomorrow afternoon approx.4-5pm.
Later,
Tim |
Number two doesn't make any sense so I will clarify. It appears the HDMI cord (from tv to Oppo) only benefits playing DVDs with the Oppo and is not in use when watching regular television. Regular cable television is not playing through my stereo set up. I have an audio out on the TV but no where to connect it on the Oppo that I can see. Do I need a preamp to connect the television audio to? |
Everything has arrived and I have it all connected and set up although not correctly. I used rca plugs from the stereo outs instead of balanced XLRs. I will change that when I get everything as it should be so I can order some cords.
So far, I have played a music dvd and it plays fine with a good picture. The two problems I have are..
1. The center channel has yet to make a noise.
2. The television does not come through the Oppo. It is hooked to the TV by the HDMI cord only. |
Wemfan,
Excellent, I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. I'm kind of busy right now with a kitchen remodel, but I'll be checking in on this thread over the next few weeks.
Tim |
Still waiting on the rack. I have everything else. I would think that another week or so and I will be putting this all together. |
My DirecTV HD-DVR also connects to the Oppo 105 via HDMI, but I use a Logitech Harmony One to control all the components in the setup. The preamp triggers the amps.
db |
Wemfan,
I just noticed I didn't answer your question on the remotes. As I noted before, my system is very similar to yours. I not only have the same hdtv and Oppo 105 as you, I have Directv, too. So, I'll tell you how I utilize the remotes and give you an idea of at least one way it all functions.
Basically, I use both the Directv remote and the Oppo remote. The Directv remote controls what you're viewing and the Oppo remote just controls the volume. I've found that, once you adjust the volume to your desired level on one channel, this volume works well on all channels so you can set it aside and just use the Directv remote only to switch channels. You'll only need the Oppo remote again if you want to turn the sound up, down or 'mute'.
The Oppo's volume level will be super-imposed on your tv screen when you adjust it on the Oppo remote. It's a horizontal bar that fills in as you increase volume and also displays a numeric volume readout of '0 to 100'. I set my volume in the '50-65' range for regular tv viewing and only increase to above '70' when watching favorite shows or movies.
To have your system work in the above manner, here's how to set it up: Connect an HDMI cable from the Directv 'Genie' or small 'client server' to the 'HDMI 1' input on the Oppo. Connect a 2nd HDMI cable (the 105 comes with a 6ft HDMI cable) from the Oppo's output to the Panasonic hdtv's 'HDMI 1' input. This hookup allows the satellite video signal to be processed by the 105's very good Qdeo internal video processor before being passed along to your plasma. The picture quality is excellent with this setup.
I also have a Logitech Harmony-650 universal remote that I used on my previous setup. I haven't yet felt the need to reprogram it to take over the functions of both into a single remote. This would be another option if you feel the need for it.
I hope this helped you understand how it all functions,
Tim |
Hi Wemfan,
Yes, understanding and tolerant wives are important for us a/v nuts. I'll have been married for 26 yrs this May and she's been cool with me turning our living rooms into combination home theaters and listening rooms (with front 6 ft tall speakers) all along. Good to hear you have a keeper, too.
Some might say you went overboard on your bedroom system with others on this thread and myself as willing instigators/accomplices. But I say pay them no mind because, every time you use it, you're going to be thrilled. The system you built is of exceptional quality from beginning to end, with no weak links in the chain. The choice of the bigger rack/stand with the KEF R600C center speaker is just the cherry on top.
We all should be arriving at your house a day or two after you get it all set up and running for a listen; you do have a king sized bed, right?
Have a blast and keep us informed.
See you soon,
Tim
|
That's pretty funny, Tim. Fortunately, I have had this wife a long time and she knows about all of my many deficiencies. Tell me this...how is the remote control going to work? Will I have two or can I get one that will work my directv and this version of a home theater? Remember, I have never done this before.
Just waitin on the center and the stands then it is hook up time!!! |
Wemfan and Finsup,
It looks like you'll be waiting 3-4 wks until you can figure out where to position them to sound best.
In the meantime, I'll give you some points to keep in mind when they do arrive:
1. Stand mounted monitors typically sound best positioned a few feet away from the wall behind them. I doubt they will sound as good if they're positioned backed against the wall. I suggest placing them, at least initially, as far away from the wall as you can while still being not in anyone's way walking in front of them. Just make sure the front of the LS50's are closer to you than the plane of the hdtv screen. You will almost certainly notice a decrease in sq if the speaker faces are behind the tv screen plane.
2. For lateral distance between the speakers, a good starting point is to position them as far apart as possible while still not obstructing doorways. If the music sounds like it is coming from points between the speakers, and not from the left and right speakers themselves, then leave them at this width. If not, then slowly move each speaker closer to the other in small increments until the sound seems to emanate from between the speakers.
3. Think of each of your speakers as corners along the base of a triangle and your head as the peak corner between the two base corners or points. Ideally your head, laying in your listening position, should be exactly between the left and right speakers. The distance from the left spkr to your left ear should be as close as possible to the distance from your right spkr to your right ear. This is critical in creating the illusion of a realistic soundstage on well recorded music. The goal most of us are after is a soundstage illusion that is wide, deep and steady. For example, on a well recorded acoustic track, the vocal might come from center stage, with percussion behind, other instruments positioned left and/or right without this illusion wavering.
You'll know your speakers are positioned properly when this goal is achieved.
4. It's easier if you have a helper; the helper makes small positioning adjustments to the speakers/stands, at your direction, while you listen for results at the listening position.- or vice versa.
5. There is another positioning method to the above called 'Toe-In'. Start with each speaker pointed straight ahead with no angle. Experiment by angling each speaker inward incrementally toward your listening spot to find out if this improves sound staging or not.
All these small adjustments to positioning are trial-and-error; the more attention and effort, the better the results. If you cannot achieve a good sound stage using these steps, your room acoustics may need analyzing and corrective room treatments. We can discuss this later if needed.
6. This is the final, and definitely the most important, guideline to follow: All of the above steps need to be done either well before your search for a life partner or a considerable time after you've met. Obviously, any sane person observing you perform the above obsessive-compulsive and rather pathetic ritual, is going to have a very strong urge to flee.
You've been warned,
Tim
|
The width of the wall is 14' but I have a television and two doors to contend with so there won't be much room for adjusting speakers.
The floor is hardwood over concrete.
3-4 weeks is correct. |
Finsup,
I think I will wait until I get it all together before I ad a sub. I don't know what size I would need but I did look at JL Audio Fantom series and they look good to me. A cylinder sub also sounds like a great option. i have never heard of one before but space is always a concern. As far as placement goes there won't be too much room to adjust. They will go pretty much where they go. My closest neighbor is 300 yards away so I won't be bothering anybody no matter what I do.
I rarely watch a movie but I do watch a good amount of television and as good as this thing should sound my music listening should go way up in this room. I actually have three more rooms to work on.
1. Our master if I can talk my wife into it.
2. The living room
3. The studio
I have a studio where I mess with my music and I have some audio gear out there that I am updating so I have lots to do over some time.
The Parasound amplifier arrived today and I also just ordered the KEF R-600 center so I have everything ordered and on the way except for a sub but I will take your and Tim's advice and wait.
As always, I really appreciate the input. |
Wemfan,
I suggest you delay purchase of a sub until you audition your new system in your room and adjust the LS50/stand positioning for optimum sq.
I can suggest a good starting point for initial speakers' placement once you answer 2 questions:
1. What is the width of the wall that your system will be setup along?
2. What type of flooring is in the room, wood or other hard surface? Carpet?
Also, are you saying the Sound Anchor stands won't arrive for about 4 weeks?
Thanks,
Tim
|
I'm thinking about the sub question a little more. SVS has a cylinder subwoofer, the PC12-NSD. Other than having a small footprint, which I would consider important in Wemfan's room, would using a cylindrical sub have any superior advantages over the typical box sub in Wemfan's room? |
Wemfan,
As Tim wrote, if you are going to get a sub, get a self-powered one. Whether you get one or not may have something to do with the neighbors. Whether you need one depends on your listening habits and what you are expecting out of the system.
I know I am beating dead horse here. Tim thinks this is an HT system. It probably is but you have not actually stated exactly that in your thread. If it is TV and maybe a little music (for now), I would just stick with the speakers.
Every speaker involves compromises. Your speaker placement positioning is a little limited. I don't quite agree with Tim that all speakers are placement sensitive. Some speakers can be put up against a wall while others need from several inches to several feet behind them to the front wall to sound good.
Finding the speaker's balance - that is the place where the bass is not over-emphasized or muddy, or where it doesn't sound thin and the image is too diffuse will require some time on your part to find that balance.
Since you are using stand-mount speakers, one challenge you will face if you use a sub is to integrate with the speakers. Therefore, try working on speaker placement first. Once you get them dialed in as best you can, then see if you need a sub.
Besides, you write that this is one of three rooms you are going to be working on and you can direct some of your funds there. Maybe one of the other rooms will be more suitable for an HT environment where a sub is essential in my view.
I have not set up a bedroom system so I don't have any experience with trying to deal with a large piece of furniture such as a bed in a 16'x14' room. Hopefully others who have done so will chime in. |
All the better if I don't need a sub. i really don't want to clutter up the room any more than i have to, not to mention the expense. I think I have decided on the R-600 as the center. It will take a month to get my stands so I will order it a little while later but everything else is on the way.
Your post didn't appear until after I had already ordered the stands and I really don't like canceling out on somebody. A deal is a deal and the guy was nice and spent a half hour trying to make sure I was getting what I needed. If it was a big chain store I would have considered canceling but not on a small business guy. I have had my posts appear slow too. I wish I had seen yours earlier.
How about cables? What should I do there?
I do have several more pieces to acquire and I do want your help. Your usual fee fits perfectly into my budget. :-)
Thanks, Bill |
I don't really have a budget but want to pick one that would would fit my system in performance. I am under the impression that a sub would really help my system. You don't agree? It would have to be one sub. I just don't have room for two. |
Wemfan,
I agree with Finsup: you may find you don't need a sub once you have it up n running and listen for a few days. You may want one since the LS50s only reproduce bass down to 47hz. I'd wait to make sure, though, since it may save you a punch in the face from your neighbor.
The possible need for a sub was the only downside I could think of when using the LS50s. If you do decide you need one, just make sure you get one with a built-in amplifier, which most come with, anyway. Once you decide on a center speaker, the A31's 3-channels will all be spoken for.
I know you received my post info on the stands after you had already bought the Sound Anchors. My recent replies have been slow to post for some reason.
In any case, you made a good choice with the Sound Anchor stands; I think they'll perform well. It's just that the Argosy stands may be just as good for a much better price.
I'm looking forward to the results since they should be very good.
I read you may be constructing some more systems in the future. If this one meets your expectations, I will be available if you'd like, at my usual fee.
Enjoy,
Tim
|
And by the way, wemfan, I don't think you need a sub for this room given the way you are going to use it. I am just helping you spend your money if that is what you want to do... :) |
Wemfan,
What is your budget for the sub? Are you thinking of one or two subs? |
Tim, haven't received your email, yet. I did buy stands for the LS50s from Soundanchors. They suggested the adjustable ones where I can tilt the speakers since my listening position is so high. I also ordered an audio rack that will accommodate the larger center speaker. I really am down to making a decision on a sub. Since there really is no budget anymore what would be your suggestion? I know nothing about how to pick a sub but i want one that is a good match for my system. |
Wemfan,
I just sent an email about stands to you but you'll probably see that post before this one.
Hopefully, you can cancel the order if, after you read my other post, you decide you'd rather buy a different one. The Argosy stand pair I mentioned, on sale for only $170/pr right now at www.sweetwater.com, may convince you to change your mind but I'm not sure.
In any case, the Sound Anchors are generally considered the best you can buy but are the most expensive, too. The only downside to the Sound Anchors I can think of is the price. If you're ok with the $$ than you probably won't regret the purchase since you can't buy better as far as sq is concerned.
Hope everything is good,
Tim |
Wemfan,
So, you have a new rack on order with a larger center speaker position and you bought the Parasound A31 3-ch amp.
I think you just need a pair of good stands for the LS50s, right?
Each LS50 weighs 16lbs and is 12"high x 8"wide x 11"deep. The stand chosen needs to be atleast these dimensions to be secure. The middle of the LS50's driver contains the tweeter(high frequency driver). Ideally, your ears, when laying on your bed at your usual viewing/listening position, should be equal to or slightly above the tweeters.
I've looked at a few stands and found 4 possibilities so far:
1. Sanus SFC22 Steel foundations steel base center stands $160ea/$320pr on AMAZON Top Plate =12"W X 15"D HEIGHT=22" These have spikes for carpet or Neoprene soft feet for hard floors. These are actually center channel stands turned sideways for secure LS50 placement. This should not cause any sonic issues but you need to see them to confirm cosmetic suitability.
2. Sound Anchor Custom stands $800/PR 30" High and weigh 75lbs each (LS50's weigh 16lbs ea.) These are Sound Anchor's custom stands designed specifically for the LS50speakers. They are expensive but give the speakers a very solid foundation. (321)724-1237 or contact by email at info@soundanchors.com. TOP PLATE=?
3. Custom Design FS104 Signature Stands $350/pair. These are only available on Amazon in the U.K., afaik. These are good looking but also unique looking in black or chrome with optional top plate sizes to fit the LS50s. They have a large,thick and circular center support column with 4 much thinner support colums at the corners for added support. I think these in black would give a cool, cohesive look with the black LS50s. They're also less than half the price of the Sound Anchors. Only downsize may be shipping charges to the U.S. which I didn't check.
4. Argosy Classic speaker stands 36"high(42" for $10 more) and weigh 60lbs each $160/pair on sale now; this is a great price for 2 sturdy, good looking stands that would work well with the LS50s. Basically a Sound Anchor type foundation at a very low bargain price(hint, hint). Top plate is 12" x 12", bottom plate is 16" x 16". Only possible downside to these is 2" of excess top plate room will be visible on each side of the LS50;no big deal to me, when saving $640 a pair, but you may differ. www.sweetwater.com. These are a very good deal right now but make sure you like their looks; I do but looks are subjective. I would buy soon if you like these since they may go fast at this price.
So you need to do the following next:
Lay on your bed in your usual position (head against your headboard you said)and measure the distance from the floor to the middle of your ears.
Only consider stands that are equal to, or slightly below this measurement; as in lower by 1-2 inches tops.
This is not a complete list of all your options, just the ones I've found thus far. Once you find sturdy stands at the right height, your choice will probably come dwn to cosmetics and price.
Good luck on the homestretch,
Tim |
I am getting closer. I ordered the stands from Soundanchors today. I chose the single post adjustable stand. You can angle the speaker as well as adjust its height.
To make the system complete I still need a center speaker and a sub. According to KEF I should go with an R series center so I think I will go with the R-600 for $1499. I know some subs have been suggested but I haven't turned my attention that way, yet. I need to wait a few weeks before spending more money.
I do want to make a sub choice soon, though. |
Tim and Finsup,
I did purchase a Parasound A31( I bet I did pay too much for it) which should be here Wednesday and I ordered an Oppo 105D and a pair of LS50 speakers last week. What I am missing are speaker stands, a center speaker and a sub which I will probably order over the next few weeks. I have changed racks so now I can accommodate the larger KEF center speaker which is what I will order if I go ahead with a center channel.
I will use this system primarily for TV but I am a musician so I will significantly up the percentage of music listening once I have a good system in place. However, I will probably never go to a 5.1 system as the head of my bed is against the wall and that is what I lay up against. I really think this system is all I am ever going to want in that room, anyway. I also have the same Panny television in two other rooms which will need my attention. One is the living room in which I want to do something above this system so this one I am learning on. The other bedroom is where we sleep and where my wife watches most of her television. It is a large room and all I have talked her into so far is a soundbar which really helped but is far from what I want in there. So far, she has been agreeable on my $2000-$4000 system (that has suddenly grown to 10) so I won't push for more until after a little time passes. :-)
You guys have all been very helpful, especially Tim, and I am considering every suggestion. I have a lot more equipment to buy so I am all ears and trying to learn. I am really looking forward to setting this thing up and I am sure I am going to have a lot of questions. Once this one is complete and I can give you my impressions I want to start in the living room which we use for 95% music and 5% television. It is a large room and I want it loud in there.
I will give continue to give updates as we go and ask for advice...lots of advice.... Thanks guys |
Finsup and Wemfan,
Finsup:
"Tim,
Of course, all your suggestions are sensible and probably have been extremely helpful to Wemfan. I re-read the thread and I still don't see him mentioning HT. He's mentioned TV twice in the thread. He'll probably clarify - I mean - he has the Oppo 105 so why not watch movies in the bedroom!??"
I agree that all my suggestions are sensible, as are yours(although I'm sure you just forgot to include the adjective "extremely" in front of "sensible" as you surely intended). Just having some fun.
You're correct, I assumed he would be watching tv, as well as bluray movies, in his deluxe bedroom system and referred to the totality as HT in my prior posts.
"I think it may be a mistake to forego a center channel speaker given he has mentioned a few times how important dialogue is. I don't think relying on a phantom center is this case will be sufficient - especially if he intends to watch 90% TV (and maybe movies) and 10% music."
Yes, given Wemfan's statements, he will probably want to include a dedicated center channel speaker in his system. I would not recommend the use of a 'phantom center', either. I think he agrees and is planning on including a dedicated center and bought a rack that has a position for it.
"As to his probable speaker choice - the KEF LS50 - I have not heard them, only read about them. Given his space limitations, those familiar with them, do you think they will work in his space? I am wondering if a speaker that isn't placement sensitive might merit consideration?"
I have never listened to the KEF LS50s, either. I actually recommended earlier a different pair of speakers to Wemfan, the Golden Ear Triton towers, but he chose to buy the KEFs. I do not think that Wemfan made a bad choice. On the contrary, the more reviews and info I read about these speakers, the more I think Wemfan made a good choice with the LS50s.
All speakers, in my experience, are 'placement sensitive' and require some sort of trial and error experimental positioning to achieve optimum sq results.
Currently, I have only 2 concerns once Wemfan gets his chosen system up and running:
1. Will it have sufficient and the proper bass response?
The KEFs are highly rated and may deliver sufficient and well defined bass response all by themselves, especially considering this is a bedroom system that will not require prodigious amounts of bass. The good news, if Wemfan decides he wants increased bass performance, is that this can be easily incorporated later by adding an amplified subwoofer. This is a decision that needs to be addressed after system setup and assessment.
2. What speaker stands will Wemfan purchase?
The LS50s require a pair of good quality stands for setup positioning and optimum sq performance. The critical factors are the height and left and right positioning in relation to Wemfan's head/ears at his listening position, presumably laying in his bed. A 3rd factor to consider is the coupling/decoupling desired from the stands/speakers to the floor. I am not well versed on this subject since I prefer to use floor standing panel speakers, not monitors.
I agree with Finsup, it would be very helpful to hear from LS50 owners/users and others knowledgeable of these speakers at this point.
As I currently understand it, Wemfan has the hdtv, Oppo 105,3-shelf rack and the KEFs are ordered and on their way. That leaves 2 components for Wemfan to decide on and order: the stands and an amplifier.
I've been looking into possible stands and would suggest Wemfan start by looking at Sound Anchor and Sanus stands. I found Google searches such as "Sanus(or Sound Anchor) stands for KEF LS50 speakers" works well, either pressing 'enter' for general results or clicking on 'images' if you want a visual of options.
You're almost there Wemfan,
Tim
|
Tim,
Of course, all your suggestions are sensible and probably have been extremely helpful to Wemfan. I re-read the thread and I still don't see him mentioning HT. He's mentioned TV twice in the thread. He'll probably clarify - I mean - he has the Oppo 105 so why not watch movies in the bedroom!??
I think it may be a mistake to forego a center channel speaker given he has mentioned a few times how important dialogue is. I don't think relying on a phantom center is this case will be sufficient - especially if he he intends to watch 90% TV (and maybe movies) and 10% music.
As to his probable speaker choice - the KEF LS50 - I have not heard them, only read about them. Given his space limitations, those familiar with them, do you think they will work in his space? I am wondering if a speaker that isn't placement sensitive might merit consideration? |
Finsup,
A similar comment has come up before in this thread. You are completely correct; many simpler, less expensive,solutions for Wemfan's originally posted question currently exist that would produce better sq than the supplied amp and speakers in his hdtv. However, I have the impression that Wemfan wants and enjoys high quality sound that is a few steps above mass market level sq and is willing to spend more to achieve it.
Audiogon members, basically, are all searching for, or have achieved, similar sq goals on a wide range of budget levels and varying levels of success in their sq quests. Wemfan can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he wants to build an audio system that matches the performance level of his Panasonic plasma and new Oppo 105 universal player. Both are products that perform a few steps beyond the levels of mass market consumer electronics. Both are also at their best when paired with good ancillary equipment like Wemfan is seeking.
My opinion is that, once he experiences how well his new system performs on both ht and music audio, his ratio of 90% ht and 10% music ratio may very well shift more toward the music portion.
Wemfan,
I'm actually really enjoying your system construction. Part of the reason, I think, is because I have a Panasonic 65" plasma and Oppo 105 in my system and know how meaningful they are in creating a high performance system. I know firsthand how these 2 components, combined with a good amp and very good speakers, are going to make you smile every time you use it and enable you to appreciate the time and money you invested in your system.
Both the Kef R200C an R600C would make a good match soundwise for the LS50s. The R200C is (6.7 x 20.9 x 12 in.) and the R600C is (7.9 x 24.8 x 13.2 in.) so the 200 would fit your rack better but the 600 may be too large.
Parasound makes very good class A/B amps. They have a reputation for high quality and amps that perform well over many yrs of service. So buying a used one might be a good choice. I don't know the going rate for used A31 3-ch amps but know the retail price when new was $3,000. But remember, it's a good idea not to equate price with sq. The Emotiva is less expensive but may sound as good or better to you. Others may disagree, but I think both A31 amps currently listed for sale here seem overpriced.
The A31 is a large amp that weighs about 65lbs. It also can run very warm/hot so it requires a well ventilated rack location.
If it was my money, which I tend to spend less freely than yours, I would probably wait and buy the Wyred4 Sound 3-ch for $1,795; it is half the size and weight, sounds very good, barely gets warm to the touch and I believe consumes about half the electricity of an A/B amp.
Honestly,if I was buying and didn't feel like waiting, I would consider buying the MMC-5 5-ch amp for $1,999(and just use 3 of 5 channels) for the reasons above plus the ability to easily go to a 5.0 or 5.1 system in the future.
The 5-ch is only $200 more. If you ever decided to add 2 rear surrounds and go to a 5.0 or 5.1 system, you'd just need to add the speakers. If you bought the 3-ch and had the same urge later, you'd need to add the speakers plus a 2-ch amp. You'd likely have a difficult time finding a quality stereo amp for $200, right? If you stumble upon a good one, please let me know.
If you don't mind buying used, you may want to keep an eye out for used class D amps on A'gon and other sites.
With what you decided on and have already, you're going to have a hard time screwing it up, even if you tried.
Did you get your rack and Oppo yet? Order the KEFs? I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of your new system's sq after it's completed and you've used it for a couple weeks.
Later,
Tim |
Tim, Thanks for checking on stands for me. I did order the KEF LS50s yesterday. I talked to one of their guys about a center. It appears their are about 4 options that would work. The R200, R600, Ls50 or no center. He seemed to think all were good options. I am still a bit up in the air about which amp to get. There are a couple of Parasound A31 amps on the for sale section. I just don't know what is reasonable to pay for them. I haven't bought the Emo amp yet thinking I may run into something that I might like better. I am plodding along and will probably get it all together next week. |
Not trying to stir the pot, just mostly wondering why: I find these amp recommendations interesting given the OP says he will use this system 90% for TV. Now, if he mentioned he'd watch movies too, then yeah. But TV? Seems like a lot of money is being put into amps for mostly TV watching and I am thinking funds could be used elsewhere to better effect. |
Wemfan,
I think the Emotiva XPA-3 would be a good match for the system you're building. The more I see and learn about the KEF LS50 speakers, the more I like them as a good choice for your needs.
As far as improving on the Emotiva for sq and your interest in alternative options, While I was looking for stand options for your KEFs yesterday,I saw an expired ad from another Audiogon member for a very interesting solution for you: he was building and selling custom stands for the LS50s that had class D amps built into the stands.
The amps were Hypex Ncore 400 module based amps that are highly regarded class D kit amps from The Netherlands. These are a lower powered variation on the Hypex Ncore 1200 modules that are only available to high-end class D manufacturers that sell their completed amps for $10,000 plus per pair as monoblocks( such as Merrill Audio, Acoustic Imagery and Mola Mola). You can read all about these modules on Audiocircle's forum.
I sent an email to this member,secretriches, asking if he'd be willing to build a pair of these amp/stands for you but he has not responded as of today.
The only other class D amp you may want to check out is the Axiom ADA-1000 in 3 channel form for $1,100. But, unlike the other class D amps I mentioned, I cannot say with any degree of certainty that the Axiom will better the Emotiva in sq.
I am sure that the Hypex Ncore 400 based kit amps will better the Emotiva in sq. If secretriches does not respond, you could probably find someone else to build a 3-channel version for you or you could build one yourself. An easier solution may be to just contact Wyred4 Sound and inquire when their 3-ch amp will be in stock again. That amp would also better the Emotiva in sq.
I'll let you know if secretriches replies. His amp/stands are ideal for your situation but only if he still makes them and at a reasonable price.
Later,
Tim |
Tim, You have my interest up for considering other amp options besides Emotiva. I looked up everything you suggested.
1. I couldn't find any prices on a 3 channel Rotel and no used ones.
2. Wyred 4 Sound has a great looking amp for $1775 but they are sold out of it
3.Class D Audio has a 4 channel amp the SDS-470 for $1275
4. D Sonic has a 3 channel amp for $1775
5. Nuforce didn't have anything but 8 channel amps on their site.
6. Parasound A31 There are two of them used on Audiogon
How would any of these amps compare to the Emotiva XPA-3 ? I could stretch my budget a bit if I was really getting better value for it. All opinions are very welcome. I don't know much about amps and of course want acquire something appropriate that will work well with the Oppo and Kef LS50 speakers. |
Pagawan2b,
"Thanks for the kind words, Tim. He was part of a truly great generation."
You're welcome. I instinctively feel proud and grateful to the Americans of the WWII era, especially those who fought. They truly were a great generation; some have even called them the Greatest generation and I tend to agree with that.
Wemfan,
I completely understand if you go with the KEF LS50 spkrs on a nice pair of stands. I've read the reviews, too, and they are very highly recommended for both sq and value. If you do buy them, you may want to get a matching KEF center channel rather than position another LS50 on its side. I would call KEF, or a KEF dealer, and ask them for the best center spkr solution.
You also mentioned the Golden Ear Triton Seven towers as an option. These would also give you very good sq and value but, remember, the Sevens do not have built in subs/amplifiers like the Triton Threes do for $500 more. But you may find you don't require a sub in your smaller room, and lower volumes, with either the Golden Ears or the KEFs.
I don't think you can go wrong with either choice so it may be decided by which you consider the better looking or which fits your room best.
For a 3-ch amplifier, I think the Emotiva is a good match for both the Oppo 105 and the spkrs. In my opinion, if you want to look at amps that would be a possible step up in sq, I would look at a new or used Rotel, Wyred4 Sound, ClassD Audio, D-Sonic or Nuforce amp. Rotel offers both class A/B (same type as the Emotiva) and class D models. The others are all class D amps which are much more energy efficient and run cooler than the A/B amps. Which amp type sounds the best is debated on forum sites like Audiogon ad nauseum. I think class D sounds very good, when done right, and use a ClassD Audio 440CS unit as my main 2-channel amp with very good results. I use older used class A/B Adcom amps for my sub and surround channels. I'm considering replacing these 2 amps with a class D 4-ch amp soon, too, mainly to decrease electricity consumption, not for sq. reasons.
You can buy a new Emotiva XPA-3, like Dbphd mentioned, for $799 on Amazon. I also saw someone is selling one used on Audiogon now for $699 that he said is like new and hardly used.
Also I looked up KEF retailers in Oklahoma and saw there is one, called Bluespeed A/V in Tulsa. There may be others since I only looked up Tulsa on their 'retailer locator' at www.kef.com.
Best of luck,
Tim |
Thanks for the kind words, Tim. He was part of a truly great generation. |
Wemfan,
I see amazon.com has the Emotiva XPA-3 for $800. My experience is that Amazon is very good about standing behind anything they sell with a simple return policy. It's good to save the packing until you're sure you got what you want to facilitate return if necessary.
db |
Tim, Thanks for the research. I really appreciate your detailed posts. I have read each one several times. I will be rereading the one about how to hook up the Oppo when it arrives.
Where I live ( in Oklahoma) there is no place besides Best Buy that carries audio equipment so no easy try outs for me. I am leaning more towards the Kef LS50s because review after review was so high on them. I also like the idea of a small bookshelf speaker on a stand. I was thinking that if I needed a center channel I could lay a single LS50 on its side. It will fit if I lay it down but I was going to try and get by without one if I could. I like the look of them a little better.
Right now, Second place would be the Goldenear Tritons. I read one review where they said the cheapest version, the 7, was also the best sounding. Anyway, I know they are great speakers and I haven't ordered any speakers yet so I will think on it for at least another day. I also considered the KEF R300 but now it is down to the Tritons and the LS50. I like the look of a speaker box more than a tower so that is influencing me.
I did order the Oppo 105D today. I haven't done as much research on amps so only the Emotiva XPA-3 is in the running. I would like some more choices. Is this amp really what I need or should I go up in price and if I do what would I be getting? |
Pgawan2b,
I respect your wife's grandfather's service and the sentimental value of his gift to her. To many a/v enthusiasts, however, anyone pairing $15k of electronics with a 42" tv screen is definitely guilty of some kind of offense. Personally, I'm somewhat offended just at the thought of it.
Sad but true,
Tim |
Pgawan2b,
If this was a furniture/home decor website I'd say fine -- whatever blows your skirt. But on this site and in this company, matching $15k of electronics with a 42" TV is a crime. |
Soix, "a crime"? Really? My wife's grandfather (a WWII vet who is no longer with us) made a beautiful cherry entertainment center for her. It is complete with matching book shelves, end tables and a coffee table; and he kiln dried some of the wood himself! I plead guilty to letting a family heirloom determine my TV and audio equipment selections.
Wemfan, I use an M&K S125C for my center channel. The angled front allows me to set the speaker on the top of my entertainment center and still have the drivers directed to my ears when I'm in my listening position. |
Wemfan,
I submitted another reply to you a few days ago that still hasn't posted. Hopefully this one posts quicker.
If I remember correctly, I think I recommended going with the Golden Ear Triton Three spkrs because they have a smaller sub built into each spkr, have a well matched $600 SuperCenter X center if you felt it was needed and there's no need for separate spkr stands. I still stand by this recommendation.
However, the KEF LS50s are probably also a very good option. You just would need a pair of stands, possibly a sub and I think they only have a small center channel if you determined you need one.
In any case, I think the purchases of the Oppo 105 and the Emotiva XPA-3 amp are very good choices that will work well with any speaker solution.
Wishing you the best,
Tim |
Here is what I am thinking to get started.
1. Oppo 105
2. Kef ls50 pair
3. Emotiva XPA-3 power amp
I thought I would order these pieces then see if I needed a center channel or a sub. Any other suggestions from anyone? Is there a better way to go? BTW, I very much appreciate all of the help that I have received on this thread. Tomorrow the phone and the credit card.... |
Wemfan- If you are having trouble w dialog, I would strongly recommend a center channel. A used NHT center channel speaker from their 1 series would fit very nicely and would match tonally w superzeros or super 1s that are almost always available on ebay. Or the new NHT Absolute zeros for mains with a new NHT absolute center. Add a sub and you have a very nice system that takes up little more space than those HT in a box deals but is way better. |
The Oppo will take care of down mixing to stereo so dialog is not lost. A 7' high slot is perfect for holding CD, SACDS, and Blu-rays, but I doubt any speaker would sound its best in it.
db |
I would certainly like to do without a center channel but I am under the impression that dialogue will certainly suffer if I leave it out? What I have read is that soundtracks are mixed for a L&R and center channel so when you leave out the center the mix suffers not being intended to play only through the left and right? I may buy the L&R speakers and hold off on the center until I hear how it sounds in stereo. |
I once helped a guy set up a home theater on which he spent about $15,000 on very good speakers and electronics, but his beloved antique cabinet would only house a 42" widescreen TV. What a crime. I think letting a cabinet dictate your choices is a frustrating (and avoidable) situation given how many cabinet types/sizes there are out there, and unfortunately your 7" height restriction is going to rule out a lot of great center speakers and significantly reduce your remaining choices -- at least for a good center speaker (even a third LS50 is too tall). Too bad, especially since you're rightly very concerned about dialogue clarity. It's a great pet peeve of mine too and why personally I wouldn't compromise on the quality of a center speaker. Hopefully you'll get some workable recommendations from the good folks here.
That said, I do agree with Dbphd that if your front L/R speakers are capable of producing clear mids and image well and your listening position is close to midway between the two speakers you might be very happy (and maybe even happier) without a center speaker. I had such a setup for several years and didn't miss a center channel one bit. Personally I'd rather have dialogue reproduced by two high-quality speakers than one compromised speaker if that ends up being the choice, but like I said maybe you'll get some good recommendations that will preclude that from being the case. Again, best of luck. |
Wemfan,
When you get the Oppo and before you commit to a center channel, try setting the center speaker to off in the Oppo set up menu so all dialog is apportioned to the LR speakers. The ability of the LR speakers to image well will have a strong effect on dialog intelligibility. The Stereophile sampler and test cd can be helpful in judging imaging. Well set up speakers should be able to generate a strong centered image.
db |
Hi Wemfan,
I did a little research for you since you're under the weather. Here's what I found out assuming you're going to choose between Golden Ear, Gallo, KEF, Aperion and KRK speakers:
Golden Ear Triton Three-the matching SuperCenter X center ($599) measures 20"wide x 5-3/4" high x 11" deep
Gallo Strata 2- the matching center speaker ($799) laid horizontally measures 13"wide x 5" high x 6.5" deep
Kef LS50- Using a 3rd LS50 as a center would not fit on your shelf(too tall) but at least one KEF dedicated center($299) would fit.
KRK-these are similar in size, but much less expensive than, the KEF LS50s. They are also too tall for you're shelf space and the l+r spkrs would need stands. They may offer a dedicated center but I didn't see one.I'll leave it to you to decide on these.
Aperion-these are similar in size, but much less expensive than, the Golden Ear tower speakers. However, they lack built in subs so you may find you need one of their 7 subs ($350-900). They also offer matching centers and at least one will fit: $160 4C that measures 12.8" wide x5.33" high x 5.5" deep and the 5C that measures 19.33" wide 7.33" high x 8" deep.
The first 3 suggestions are all highly rated speakers, as reviewed by professional reviewers, and will most likely give you the best sound but at the highest costs. The last 2 suggestions I have not read reviews on , but they still may meet your sound quality requirements, and they definitely offer the lowest costs.
In my opinion, and not solely because I suggested them, I believe the Golden Ear speakers offer the most elegant solution based on your needs for the following reasons:
1. You are assured of high quality sound since you can probably audition them first at a local dealer (go to www.goldenear.com and select the 'dealer' menu choice to find your nearest dealer).
2. The list price of 2 Triton Three spkrs and matching SuperCenter X center($2,600) is not cheap but is not the most expensive suggestion, either. Your local dealer may offer you a discounted package deal, especially if you buy 3 speakers and a suitable 3-channel amp from him.
3. Each Triton Three spkr has a built in subwoofer with its own amplifier, which not only saves floor space but also improves sq.
4. If you pick a very good looking, as well as a very good sounding, 3 ch amp to go along with the very good sounding and very good looking towers and center, you'll be a lock to win multiple room design awards and prizes.
5. The matching SuperCenter X spkr fits perfectly into your new rack center channel shelf position. You may view this as just a fortunate coincidence, however, many in the know would confirm that it's an obvious sign from the Audio Gods concerning the ideal choice.
I'm sure you know I'm just having a little fun, however, the Emotiva 3-ch is a good sounding and good looking (hint, hint) amp that would nicely complete your very good sounding and looking bedroom audio system.
Hope this helped,
Tim
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