Yesterday the audio rack arrived so I measured it and the space is 7'x20" where the center channel will sit. I am a little afraid to not have a center speaker as Dbphd suggests because I am having some trouble understanding some dialogue and that is one of the main problems I want to overcome. I installed a speaker bar in another bedroom with the same model television and it really cleared up the dialog for me so I am thinking I definitely want a center speaker since I will be mostly listening to television on this system.
I have been fighting a cold all week so I haven't been researching my options but early next week I plan to order the Oppo then make some decisions on the speakers and amplifier. I tend to always upgrade and really hate it when I go too cheap so I may up the amplifier quality some. i guess I need to decide on speakers first then I will post back here and you guys can help me make a good decision on an amplifier. The KEF LS50 speakers look really good but I also really like the idea of the sub being in the Goldenear cabinets, too.
I plan to restart my research on Monday and look up the new suggestions and go from there. I really appreciate all of the help. I am looking up and carefully considering every suggestion. Like anybody I want a good system at a fair price so I am reading and rereading the suggestions. I will keep you guys updated as I go along. Thanks... |
Another option to consider is pairing an Oppo with active speakers such as the KRK VXT8. |
Wemfan,
Two points to consider:
(1) If your LR speakers image well, you may not need a center channel. Reviews suggest the KEF LS50 image exceptionally well, but other speakers also image well. I removed our center channel, because the big KEF Reference 107/2s image so well a center channel is redundant.
(2) Low frequencies are most critical for room correction, and you might be able to find something like the Velodyne SMS-1 bass manager used at a good price. I've long used an SMS-1 to control a pair of HGS-15s, and I recently bought a pair of SMS-1s for $450.
db |
Wemfan,
Ok, it sounds like you have made some decisions:
You have a rack ordered with 3 shelf positions that will hold a yet to be determined center spkr, the Oppo 105 and a yet to be determined amp or a/v receiver. I'm not certain, but it sounds like the rack will also accommodate your 65" plasma either setting atop or attached to some built in structure.
Soix has raised some good points that deserve addressing:
1. Cost- Couldn't you just use an a/v receiver, with Audyssey or other room control capacity, along with a left, center and right speakers and possible sub?
The short answer is yes, you could, and this would give you sound quality far beyond your Panasonic's internal speakers and would be the least expensive option. However, I (and I think Rlwainwright and Dbphd, too) thought you were willing to pay more for sound quality a few steps beyond mass market consumer electronics and speakers, which is why we suggested higher end solutions.
Given your situation, sound goals and budget, your decision to buy the Oppo 105 is an excellent choice/solution. This unit has features that I'm not sure Soix is aware of:
It eliminates the need for an a/v receiver since it can be used as a limited input preamp (that works well for your requirements), surround sound processor for 3.1 to 7.1 configuration as well as high quality audio/video processors and dacs for music, movies and ota, cable and satellite hdtv. All you need to add is the amplifier and speakers.
It is true the Oppo lacks the sophisticated room correction software (Audyssey,etc) that some newer a/v receivers have but it does have a more basic speaker setup capacity that I think is ample for your purposes using a 3.0 or 3.1 setup. The Oppo's speaker configuration menu has a test tone generator that lets you balance your speakers manually by ear. You initially enter the distance in feet that your spkrs(l,c, r and sub) are from your listening position. If the system's algorithm settings are not to your liking, you can adjust each spkrs level up or down until you achieve the most balanced results to your ears.
The Oppo, along with a high quality 3-channel amp, likely gives you audio performance beyond almost any a/v receiver and light yrs ahead of the sound you currently have.
2. Equipment-Couldn't you just buy a simple setup consisting of a left, center and right speakers with a sub (like Axiom spkrs with a SVC sub)?
Again, the answer is yes you could. It all comes down to your budget and sound quality goals. Dbphd, Rlwainwright and I all offered options that are, admittedly, on the hi-end of the sound quality and cost spectrum that may be better suited to someone's main a/v system than a bedroom setup.
Are our suggestions 'overkill' and Soix's suggestion more appropriate and reasonable? Absolutely, but its your money and you just need to decide how much better sound is worth to you and how much your willing to spend. Only you, of course, can answer this.
You do have lots of options.
Have fun and enjoy the search,
Tim |
Here's a link with a brief description of what room correction does. If you go to the bottom and click the FAQ section there will be answers to many other questions you may find helpful as well. In a nutshell, even getting stereo speakers to sound balanced in a room can be a challenge, but add to that a center channel and a sub and the task gets exponentially harder -- especially regarding integrating the sub properly. These programs can be very helpful in setting the proper levels for each speaker while also taming a room's particular influence on the sound -- one of the most neglected and important aspects of achieving really great sound.
http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/how-to
One of the gold standards right now is Audyssey MultEQ XT32, but you'd have to pay up a bit to get that right now and as this is not a super-critical listening environment you have to decide whether this is worth it. Given your application here I'm not so sure it is and that one of the very good mid-level correction programs in the cheaper receivers/prepros wouldn't be more than fine. There are many out there (me included) who will say room correction along with speaker selection will have the biggest absolute impact on what you ultimately hear. Not that everything isn't important -- it most certainly is from an ultimate qualitative standpoint -- but in terms of the magnitude of impact on what you ultimately hear this has been my experience. |
Soix, I hate to admit it but I have no idea what room/speaker correction is on an audio amp. I am only going to have 3 spaces below the television to put gear. A center speaker, blu-ray and what ever amp/preamp goes in the last slot unless I can double something up. I will have a look at the Aperion speakers. Thanks...
Tim, I don't want to mount the televison on the wall and have ordered a rack that will put the tv at just the right height for watching in bed. I'm glad you are enjoying spending my money because many times I don't buy because I just don't know what to get. I have been watching this bedroom tv and listening to the stock speakers for 2 1/2 years so I am ready to do something. I really appreciate all of the info I have received on this thread. I have some info to work with and I have learned several things. Once the rack gets here I plan to have made decisions on the amps and speakers. I will update this thread as I go along. |
Since 90% of your time will be watching TV the center speaker will be of particular importance and I'd try to get the best one that fits your space and budget. Personally I like either using a monitor speaker (preferably matching the L/R speakers), but as this is not usually practical due to speaker height I'd choose a center with the tweeter located atop a dedicated midrange driver and then flanked by two midwoofs (I have been underwhelmed by center speakers that have two midwoofs flanking a single tweeter). Something like the Aperion Intimus 5C may be ideal as it comes in this configuration and is also less than 8" in height. Add their matching 5B bookshelves and an SVS PB1000 sub and you'd have the beginnings of a nice full-range system that's relatively economical and doesn't take up a lot of space. Paradigm also makes a Center1 speaker (and matching monitors) that would also fit your space and has a similar configuration, but at that price level I'd go with Aperion's silk dome tweeter over the Paradigm's metal dome, but that's personal preference. Given the size of your room I'm not sure I'd want to use tower speakers without a sub as they'd need to be pretty large to get bass near that of a subwoofer and may overwhelm your room visually and sonically.
As for electronics, an important consideration is the effectiveness of any room/speaker correction as that can make a big difference in what you ultimately hear especially in a smaller room. I'm not familiar with how the Oppo performs in this regard, but if it does well then maybe purchasing the Aperion speakers/SVS sub and the Emotiva amp mentioned above might make for an excellent combination for your situation/purposes (and I believe all offer nice in-home trial periods). If the Oppo doesn't do a good job with room correction it may be worth considering a decent AV receiver instead. Something like a Yamaha RXV475 should work perfectly fine for this application unless you want to spend considerably more for separates or a better AVR, but given this is mainly for lower volume TV watching I'm not sure it's worth the added expense. For whatever it's worth... |
Wemfan,
Just a few thoughts:
1. The Oppo 105- I bought mine at Crutchfield for $1,219 but free shipping. You can get it for $1,199 at Amazon and direct from Oppo but not with free shipping. When I bought at the end of Jan., this resulted in a net price that was $7 less from Crutchfield for me. You may have other incentives for buying elsewhere. so just an FYI.
2. Setup- Since you don't have an abundance of space, I would recommend wall mounting your 65" plasma. I mounted my 65" plasma in my living room system. The trick is mounting it at the right height, not too high or low. You want your head, from your viewing seat or bed in your case, to be at the same height as the middle of your tv screen. The middle of my screen, following this guideline, meant I mounted the middle of my tv 39" from the floor and this has worked out very well. You could measure the height of your eyes when on your laying in bed in a viewing position and then match the center of your tv to that height.
My mount (bought from Mounts Direct for $210) also telescopes out 36" from the wall, tilts several inches up and down and 90 degrees left and right. The movement up to 3ft closer may prove very useful for your situation.
3. Speakers(l+ c +r)and sub:
KEF LS50s- highly regarded spkrs but would require stands($100-200) and a subwoofer($800-1000). Matching center($300-800) could be wall mounted or set on stand. You'd probably want to bolt a door stop to the floor just before the LS50 stand to prevent tipping. Total spkr cost= $2,700-4,500(top price would include a 3rd LS50 as center).
Gallo Strata 2- Also highly regarded spkrs but would require wall mounting or stand mounting of speakers and a subwoofer($650-1000) is needed. Gallo Strata 2 custom stands are pricey at $450/pr. Door stop also would be good. Total spkr cost= $3,100-3,550.
Golden Ear Triton Three- Again, highly regarded spkrs but should eliminate the need for a sub. No stands required but matching centers are expensive($600-800). A floor door stop should also be used to prevent cosmetic damage. Total spkr cost=$2,600-2,800.
Honestly, I have not heard any of these speakers. But, from reading reviews and customer feedback, I am fairly certain any of these systems would meet or exceed your expectations. You could probably find local retailers to listen to the KEF and Gallo systems as well as other brands you may like. Golden Ear speakers, however, are sold direct with a home audition period so hearing them would be more difficult.
These options are not cheap so I'm sure you want to choose wisely. I'm retired with plenty of spare time, so I'm willing to help as much as I can. I have a very similar system to your projected one(Panasonic 65" plasma, Oppo 105 and surround setup) so I feel my experience may help you.
Plus, I'm really enjoying spending your money,
Tim |
The television currently sits on a dresser but I have ordered an audio rack to replace it. However, the space for the center speaker is only 27" wide by 8" tall so that wouldn't work for the Magnepan center and may be a problem with some other picks as well. While I have 14' across the end of the room there is also a door on that wall and a door that swings onto it so I really don't have any overabundance of room. As usual space is a factor.
I like the Goldenear speaker look and really like the fact that it has subs built in. I need to read more about these speakers. However, a separate sub is also good. I won't be upgrading to a 5.1 or 7.1 in the future. This room just isn't large enough and my head is against the far wall at the head of the bed. I will order the Oppo 105 this week and wait for the rack to arrive before ordering the speakers or amp so I can be sure everything can fit.
I appreciate everyones input and am looking up every suggestion and taking notes. I don't really have a hard budget but just don't want to spend more than necessary for a good system. More suggestions would be helpful and don't assume I know anything. HT systems are something I know nothing about. I will be buying from the suggestions posted here. I really appreciate the help. |
Wemfan,
Just noticed a classified listing on this site for an Emotiva XPA-3 for $100 off at $699, new is $799 by audiolawyer100. He says it's 1 month old and still in the box and will ship from Pa. for free.
Just a heads-up, seems like a good deal.
Tim |
Wemfan,
I just read the Stereophile review on the KEF LS50 speakers that Dbphd recommended. These look like something you should consider, very good review. You would need a pair of stands with these($100-150) and would probably need a new or used sub($800-1,000), too. Also, you'd need a 3-channel amp like the Emotiva for $799 and a matching KEF center channel for $300-400. At $1,500, the speakers look like a bargain but the whole setup would run between $3,500-3,700 plus the $1,200 for the Oppo 105. I'm not sure if you want to spend that much.
The Rlwainwright suggested Gallo Strada system looks very interesting but probably should be considered a hi-end alternative with a matching price of $3,100 for l/c/r and sub. You'd either need to wall mount the l+r small speakers or purchase the optional stands for $450/pr.
Another suggestion I would propose is the Golden Ears Triton Three speakers (http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series). These are $999 each but have a built in amplified sub in each speaker so no $1,000 sub should be needed. They are good looking floor stand speakers that might simplify your setup. You'd still need one of their matching center channels(the larger Supercenter XL for $799 or the smaller Supercenter X for $599)and a 3 channel amp like the Emotiva XPA-3 $799 on Amazon).
This I would also consider a hi-end system with matching price tag that would be a total of $3,396 -3,596, depending on the center channel chosen and also don't forget the extra $1,200 for the Oppo.
We're good at spending your money, aren't we?
As you can see, you have lots of options and we're only suggesting a few. You have so many options at your healthy budget that it may help you to visit a few retailers and get a listen.
Are you going to wall mount your 65" plasma? If yes, I think the wall mounted hdtv, with a shelf or stand below (containing the amp, Oppo and center channel) with a Triton Three flanking the tv on each side, would be an extremely good looking and sounding bedroom system. Of course, you could also substitute the KEFs or Gallos,too. You have a ton of options, my friend.
I wrote another reply yesterday that hasn't posted yet,
Tim |
For a top-flight bedroom system, I'd recommend the following:
1) Oppo BDP-103 or BDP-105 ($500 or $1200
2) Emotiva XPA-3 3-channel amp ($800)
3) Gallo Stradas for L/C/R speakers ($700 ea.)
4) Velodyne DD+ 10 subwoofer (about $1,000 on Audiogon)
This will give you a *very* highly resolving system that will playback every shiny disc available as well as provide internet/network streaming. At the top end, it will run you about $5100 (BDP-105), and about $4300 if using a BDP-103. Buying all the items used could knock $500-800 off the price tag.
This would be KILLER bedroom system!
-RW- |
The KEF LS50s have been getting rave reviews and an A rating from Stereophile. I'd check out used amps on Audiogon. You might find a used sub as well.
db |
Wemfan,
You may want to avoid Audiophile Liquidators. I did some research and some have had less than pleasant experiences with them. Nobody's claiming fraud or loss of money but are mainly claiming poor customer service. Paying with a credit card, especially Amex, will offer some recourse if trouble arises. The prices are great but I've never bought from them. Do a google search, read the reviews and you can make an informed choice. You'll also see their website listed.
If you buy the E110 or another powered sub, you will only need a stereo amp since the amplifier is built into the sub enclosure. You'll need to plug in the subwoofer to a wall electrical socket and also run a line level rca cable from the 105's analog subwoofer output to the sub's line level input. You can set the crossover frequency on either the sub or the 105's setup menu. For an initial 3 spkr setup(a sub and l+r front speakers)you'd only need a stereo amp. However, if you'd like an initial 3.1 setup(sub, center channel spkr and r+l front spkrs), then you are correct that you'd need a 3 channel amp. Emotiva and Outlaw both offer good 3-ch amps, also.
I believe the Magnepan MMG and 12 models are offered as wall mounts or free standing on supplied stands for a similar price. They are both very good speakers from the midrange on up but are a bit weak in the bass regions due to their smaller size. However, either model in combination with a good sub (crossed over at about 80hz) would produce excellent results. I use the older and larger Magnepan 2.7qr spkrs with a sub with very good results in my music/ht system. I also think I have the same hdtv as you; a Panasonic 65" VT60 plasma. I can say for certain that this unit with an Oppo 105 is an outstanding combo. Good choice on the 105, you'll gain better audio over the 103.
You also asked for a few more speaker and amp suggestions. I just need a few questions answered before I can offer useful suggestions:
Are you going to definitely buy a sub? center channel?
Can you break your budget down by amp + speakers and sub + center if wanted?
Are you interested in using a 5.1 or 7.1 setup in the future, adding side and/or rear speakers? A yes answer will influence my amp choices.
Is 90% tv/movies and 10% music still accurate?
Thanks,
Tim |
Great information. I looked up everything you suggested. I couldn't find audiophileliquidators.net The website just wouldn't work. The E110 sub was $1500 in every other place I looked. Also, the Emotiva UPA-200 is a stereo amp. Wouldn't I need a 5.1 or at least a 3 channel amp? I need floor standing front speakers as wall speakers just won't work. I really appreciate the long post that was full of good information. I plan to get the Oppo 105 and a couple more suggestions on speakers and an amp would be very helpful. Thanks a bunch. |
Wemfan,
Seditious3 has a very good idea that I would also recommend, you don't need to buy an A/V receiver. The BDp-103 and 105 Oppos can be used as a limited input preamp, surround processor and bluray,CD, SACD, DVD-A player and even a digital music renderer and player.
You have a wide budget range, so I'll give you 2 system options; one for a very good basic system and one that I'd classify as spectacular, both assuming you only have the tv right now.
Option#1 Very Good Basic System $2,528 total :
Oppo BDP-103 $499
JL Audio E110 powered sub $1,050 (www.audiophileliquidator.net)
Magnepan MMG W wall mounted speakers $325
Magnepan MMG C center channel speaker $299
(www.audiolab.com)
Emotiva UPA-200 stereo amp $349
(www.amazon.com)
Option#2 Spectacular System $4,018 total:
Oppo BDP-105 $1,199
JL Audio E110 powered sub $1,050 (www.audiophileliquidator.net)
Magnepan MMG W wall mounted speakers $325
Magnepan CC5 center channel speaker $1,095
(www.audiolab.com)
Emotiva UPA-200 stereo amp $349
Within your stated budget of $2-4,000, these are both high-end systems that will sound and look very good to great. Of course, if you'd rather spend less, I could still give you a couple options ranging from $1-2,000 or even less, that would still sound very nice. Let me know if you'd like some less expensive options. |
Wemfan,
Seditious's suggestion of just using the Oppo without a receiver is a very good one. Here's how it would work:
The Oppo has separate analog outputs for up to a 7.1 surround system: front L + R, Center, Side surround L + R,Rear surround L + R and subwoofer. All would be connected to the multi-channel amp of your choice via analog audio line level cables with rca connectors at each end. You can use just 2 front speakers and a sub to start and go up to a 5.1 or a full 7.1 setup later if you wished. If you buy an amplified sub, you would just need a stereo amp for the 2 front speakers and run the Oppo's sub out directly to the amplified sub's input. If you buy a passive sub (unamplified), then you would need at least a 3-channel amp( like an Emotiva or Outlaw) to power the l + r speakers and the Oppo's sub out would go to the 3rd channel on the amp, with speaker wires to the sub.
The Oppos have a cool feature that I just discovered: It will automatically playback in multi-ch or stereo depending on the inputted signal. To configure this you have to hook it up in the following manner:
1. Connect the 'Dedicated Stereo' outputs on the Oppo using xlr or rca cables to the amp's l+ r inputs, do not use the Front L and Front R outs that are included in the analog out section.
2. Press the 'Home' button on the remote and go into the 'Setup' section. Choose 'Audio Processing' from the options on the left side and press select/enter. Use the arrow buttons to highlight the 'Stereo Signal' setting(you'll need to scroll down since it's one of the last settings) and press select/enter.
3. Choose the 'Front L+R' setting, do not select 'Down Mixed Stereo', and press select/enter.
This auto feature is really more impressive when using a 5.1 or 7.1 configuration since the Oppo will automatically play back in surround when you're watching tv or amovie and play back in stereo when you're listening to a cd or a computer file.
I have the Oppo 105 in my system and found out the above after setup. For you, using the Oppo will eliminate the need for a preamp, A/V receiver or a processor. The Oppo will do it all and very well.
For your budget and concerns for quality, I would buy an Oppo 103($500) or Oppo 105($1200), a pair of wall mounted (or free standing) Magnepan MMG speakers($325/pr), Magnepan MMGC center channel speaker ($300) and a JL Audio E110 powered sub($1,100) and Emotiva UPA-200 stereo amp($350). The total price would be $2,575 for the Oppo 103 system or $$3,275 for the Oppo 105 system.
The 105 and 103 both offer great video but the 105 offers superior audio play back than the 103.IMO, either would be great for a bedroom system and the 105 would be spectacular. If you opt for the Magnepans you have a choice of white or black and the center channel would not be a necessity. Of course, you could substitute speakers of your choice. The components/speakers I listed are picked for sound quality for both HT and stereo use.
Hope this helped you,
Tim
|
If you're using an Oppo, and not using a turntable or radio tuner, I suggest skipping the receiver and just getting a 3 or 5 channel amp. Get a 5 channel if you plan to upgrade later.
The Oppo does very well directly into an amplifier, and the surround settngs can be controlled from the Oppo. |
I would guess the receiver, speakers and sub should be somewhere between $2000-$4000 |
What's your budget for the receiver and speakers (including the sub)? |
The television is all I have, so far. I plan to use an Oppo Blu Ray but I haven't made any decisions about the receiver or speakers, yet. You are correct the music is a secondary consideration and I want a receiver rather than separates to save room if nothing else. I was guessing I should pay more than $250 for a decent receiver but I don't how much more, to get something appropriate. I also want some good sounding speakers for a bedroom television set-up. I don't want to go overboard but I don't want to go cheap either. |
Two important questions are 1) how important is sound quality for that 10% of music and 2) what speakers are you using and how hard are they to drive?
I'm guessing music will be more of a secondary thing and so sound quality not of the utmost importance although you obviously want it to at least sound good. And if the speakers aren't a particularly hard load and considering you're listening at relatively low levels in a relatively small room with a sub it doesn't sound like you'll need all that much power. I'd go for something like a Yamaha RXV375 ($250 or less new), which probably has enough power for your needs and gets decent reviews for sound quality versus other receivers in the price range. The biggest remaining question would be if it has all the features/connections you need or want. Given what you described I think getting a separate amp/prepro might be a bit overkill for this situation. Hope this helps and best of luck. |
