Solid state - How wide can 3D image go

soundstaging is much more about your room acoustics (size, shape, control of reflective surfaces), speaker set-up, and the elimination of distortion than media types. certainly source electronics are also involved. the idea is that when system set-up is right, the music ceases to be heard as coming from speakers, it comes alive in your room. bad acoustics and poor speaker set-up and distortion (non-musical noises) localizes the music as coming directly from the drivers instead of being holographic.

and the best systems allow each recording to have a unique presentation for that recording as far as soundstage characteristics. if every recording has the same soundstage, that is not musical truth.

sure; tubes do bloom more than some solid state, but the overall system is more significant than the circuit design.

in my room with almost all solid state gear, i can get 180 degree wrap around soundstaging with the right CD files. even behind me to the sides with out of phase information on some recordings.

or......in a poor room with poor speaker set-up, the best soundstaging recordings or media (or tube gear) can be limited to between the speakers.

it’s about a good room and the care of system set-up mostly.....not even level of investment (or tubes in and of themselves) is that important to width of soundstage.

I agree that the room and placement is important, but digital equipment can definitely affect your soundstage. A key technical feature of a good streamer is low jitter, with negative results being a poorly defined or smeared image. The DAC you are using certainly figures into the equation as well. Can you provide some details on what you using for streaming and DAC? 

Hi All,
I agree with the setting up the room to get the best acustics. I can’t explain why, but what I can say is that using the Philips CD player (has a CD or Transport) I get a huge sound stage. If I then change to a Sony CDP-997 (has a CD or transport) it does not give me that big of a sound stage.

I don’t think the my DAC (Moon 280D) is the issue because of what It is able to do with the Philips CD player.

Believe, I’ve seen some time ago, Nelson Pass saying on interview to Steve Gutenberg that on the amplifiers the 2nd or 3rd harmonic had impact on the imaging.
I understand I can’t change my gear at this level, has this would require skils I do not have.

I may be wrong but based on what I can test at home, I don’t think my DAC (Simaudio Moon 280D with MiND) is the issue, has it is able to cast a wide stage when converting the information form the Philips CD player on both Optical and Coax inputs.
I think whatever I need to do to increase the sound stage/3D image, needs to be done at music server and the transport (LAN) of the music to the DAC.

Sounds like the Philips machine is getting more info from the source. Or it's adding something to give the effect of a big soundstage.

Hi,

My LAN setup is still in evolution. Do you know if changing the power supply at the router level improves the sound imaging?

what I can say is that using the Philips CD player (has a CD or Transport) I get a huge sound stage. If I then change to a Sony CDP-997 (has a CD or transport) it does not give me that big of a sound stage.

I suspect you have identified your problem. The Sony, which appears to be vintage(?), has a poor or out of spec clocking system, and is creating a lot of jitter in the signal sent to the DAC. I plugged in my old Nakamichi CD player a few years ago to see how it sounded, unlistenable compared to the streamer I had in place. There could of course be other factors influencing the digital output of the Sony, but just letting you know what I have found experimenting with various digital sources running to the same DAC. 

Hi Zione29,

Both CD players are considered vintages, however both I have had them serviced by recently.

The Sony unit plays very well, it just can’t compete with the Philips in terms of 3D image and sound stage.

I’m terms of increasing the 3D image and sound stage on the streaming side, what did you do?

In the end I eliminated both my CD players altogether. Ripped all my CD's to a network drive and used a Sonos Connect for streaming them and online content. The reason I know how much difference a streamer can make is that as an experiment this winter I put together a Raspberry Pi box with an Allo DigiOne streamer board in it to see how it compared to the Connect which is known to be a bit jittery. Immediately noticeable improvement, two different streamers, same DAC. In your case, two CD players, same DAC, noticeably different. Honestly, I would just chuck the Sony as I do not think there is a way to fix the issue.

Hi All,

I know I can improve on my current network/streaming part, I am trying to understand what will make the most noticeable difference in regards to 3D imaging and sound stage. Would it be lps, switch, router, lan converters, power conditioners, etc

Got it, sorry I was missing the point. What are the other components of your system? 

Hi,

From the music server to the DAC I have:

1) server (HP Ellite 8000) running Roon with 2SSD one for os and the other for the music. The server is also running Fidelizer Pro with the Audiophile option set. I am using the Standard HP power supply.
2) the server links to a 8 port tp link switch that uses a ifi power brick.The LAN Cable used is a bespoke CAT8 copper/Silver.
3) from the TP-Link switch It then goes to a TP Link lan to optic converter with a Ifi power brick and the same CAT 8 Cable.
4) on the other end of the optic cable (20m) I have the same TP-Link converter & ifi power brick.
5) from point 4 the data is passed through to a Silent angle switch using the silent Ângel power brick.
6) the 1st SA witch passed data to another silent Angel switch that then passes on to the Moon DAC.

Step 5 and 6 uses the same CAT 8 cable.

It sounds like you have the cabling and isolation well thought out. I have considered using the relatively low cost TP Links, do you have any feedback on them? Did they make a difference?

I am sure there are those that would differ, but while I think decent cabling and isolation make a difference, it is not going to provide the drastic improvements that good components will offer. Updating my preamp made a huge change and I have upgraded my power amplifier this year, improving imaging yet again. But preamp, that was a big one. Along with clean digital components, I continue my search to improve there.