@niodari FWIW we've been working on a class D amp of our own design for the last 4 years. It **should** not matter to reproduce depth if the amp is tube or solid state. But the simple fact is most solid state designs have troubles in this regard- but not all.
Solid state amplifiers and sound stage, especially front to back "depth"
I've been enjoying my trial period with the Van Alstine SET 400 stereo amplifier. When I'm done and have collected my thoughts, I may write up a summary.
In the meantime, a question for folks with more experience. I've noticed is that the amp produces a sound stage that is nicely defined and articulate from left to right, but not as much from front to back. (My Adcom was also unable to create sound stage depth.) I know my room is capable of that sound stage because my tube amp accomplishes it.
Question: Is it typical of solid state amps to have less of a front to back sound stage than tube amps? Do they vary in this regard? Or, perhaps, am I failing to do something -- such as re-position my speakers? (After all, I immediately get that sound stage back when I switch amplifier without moving anything else.)
If you have any experience with solid state amplifiers and sound stage -- front to back, left to right, or whatever, I'm curious.
This is not about me keeping or not keeping the amp. There are many things I already really like about it. But I'm wondering about this aspect.
Thanks.
In the meantime, a question for folks with more experience. I've noticed is that the amp produces a sound stage that is nicely defined and articulate from left to right, but not as much from front to back. (My Adcom was also unable to create sound stage depth.) I know my room is capable of that sound stage because my tube amp accomplishes it.
Question: Is it typical of solid state amps to have less of a front to back sound stage than tube amps? Do they vary in this regard? Or, perhaps, am I failing to do something -- such as re-position my speakers? (After all, I immediately get that sound stage back when I switch amplifier without moving anything else.)
If you have any experience with solid state amplifiers and sound stage -- front to back, left to right, or whatever, I'm curious.
This is not about me keeping or not keeping the amp. There are many things I already really like about it. But I'm wondering about this aspect.
Thanks.
Showing 9 responses by atmasphere
Again, i personally enjoy very much tube reproduction, but at the same time, I consider the sound stage, in particular, somewhat "artificially exaggerated" (but pleasing) after comparing it with the other system.IME it takes a really good solid state amp to keep up with tubes in that regard. Having made my own recordings which I've released on LP and CD, I've not found that tube amps exaggerate depth. |
the amp produces a sound stage that is nicely defined and articulate from left to right, but not as much from front to back.I know my room is capable of that sound stage because my tube amp accomplishes it.@hilde45 Tubes have long dominated the field when it comes to presenting soundstage width and depth. I've outlined reasons why amps might be weak in this department. In a nutshell, if you want the same depth in a solid state amp, you'll have to move on from the one you have. Its entirely fair to expect a solid state amp to be able to equal tubes in this regard. But IME you'll probably have to audition the candidates side by side with your tube amps to know you're getting what you want. IMO most solid state designs are lacking in this department and its been a problem historically since solid state became practical. But there are designs out there now that appear up to the task. |
That's at least how I remember him explaining it. And that seems to be exactly what Frank was saying he doesn't do. But I remain confused.@hilde45 All amps make distortion; if you understand how the ear interprets distortion than you don't have to do much if you understand how the topology of the circuit design affects distortion (for example, how single-ended circuits express a 2nd harmonic through a quadratic non-linearity). Put another way, this stuff is knowable and responds to math. If you did your math homework there won't be too much tweaking needed on the bench. |
I guess I don't really know what that term can mean or how to interpret his commentsWell that makes two of us. If 'voicing' is trying to get the most linearity out of the circuit than we do that. But we're not listening to it when we do that- we're measuring it. The listening only comes in after it seems OK on the bench. So far the listening hasn't revealed anything we couldn't see on the bench in the last 45 years... @decooney makes a good point with regards to guitar amps where you have to be careful to not allow the circuit to play bass and to use the proper cheap parts that give you that 'sound' when overdriven. Entirely different kettle of fish! |
So far, if I'm paying attention, only the Sunfire 300 amp has been given props for an amazing soundstage.I've heard some class D amps that do very well too. I can't agree with this. Frank's comments are spot on and I feel exactly the same way. Voicing an amplifier is likely to simply result in some sort of synergy with some other equipment and ultimately, any audio product has to stand on its own merits and not rely on another's to sound right. IOW designing for synergy or 'voicing' is likely going to result in more distortion."I have no clue about "voicing" an amplifier. It is NOT a musical instrument. It is not supposed to "sound good". The best it can do is to not screw up the information presented at its inputs and drive whatever load is connected to it without interacting with or being modified by the load….We will leave "voicing" to trumpets and tubas and such, and keep doing basic evaluation of circuit electronics…..We did not spend any time "voicing", only refining our engineering knowledge and the application of that." [Source: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76587.20 ] |
Then there is less well designed S.S. amplifiers on the market than we may think?IMO, yes. In solid state amps in particular this is all about how well their feedback system is designed. Most of the time though the problem is the amp simply lacks enough feedback; you need over 35dB to really get the job done right. Most have less- 20dB is common. When you have a low amount like that the feedback itself makes distortion- and the amp is often unable to get the phase relationships from front to rear completely correct. I placed a more in depth post on this topic on another thread today about distortions. |