SL1200GAE New Tonearm

SME 309, IV, or V. Best tonearms in the world IMO.

Yes looking at a V would like easy vta not sure how easy sme are

I would recommend Reed tonearms, if you will check for 9,5" inch versions the pivot to spindle distance is 223mm, all you need is 3 holes to screw in the tonearm to the armboard, but the cable will stay above the armboard.

Reed 3P, among other features, like fine VTA adjustment on-the-fly, also has a unique possibility of adjusting azimuth while playing a record. An exciting thing about the azimuth adjuster is that during the adjustment process the cartridge "swings" around the needle tip, hence keeping all other tonearm parameters intact.

Reed 3p 12" Cocobolo is my reference tonearm, but there are more options from Reed. Many options for the material of the armtube available, so it’s eary to chose the mass for your cartridge.

Absolutely amazing build quality. Not only VTA on the fly, but also Azimuth on the fly! With this tonearm you can properly adjust ultra High-End cartridges.

And BTW this is a good looking removable armboard for your GAE
https://theaudiophileman.com/sound-vision-2018-ammonite-audio/ 

Yes looking at a V would like easy vta not sure how easy sme are

SME armboards for SL1200GAE, G, and GR

When Technics introduced the SL1200, they also introduced the SL120, which--instead of including a Technics tonearm--included a SME-compatible armboard. The Technics DD TTs have a relationship with SME tonearms going back to the product introduction.

@chakster also looking at the reeds, know anyone can get me one near my price.as I read more not sure about the TP I do like how the arm sits on the top of the table like the red. I know about the arm boards I was almost going to order the Jelco 850S from them but thought might as go up a notch or two. My cartridges are the Cadenza Bronze, AT ATR9. Quintet black, Grace F9 with ss ruby stylus. Could also get the Jelco and upgrade my Parasound JC3 JR phono stage?

@johnnyb53

When Technics introduced the SL1200, they also introduced the SL120, which--instead of including a Technics tonearm--included a SME-compatible armboard.

It was in 1975-1977, but good idea.
New SL-1200GAE, G, RG series without technics tonearm would be great today.
Anyway we will see NEW Technics tonearms for sale from those people who will replace them with something else. I think the owners of old Sl1200mkII could replace their stock old tonearm with this new arm from GAE series. I wonder how much

@jtsnead 

Never tried the ART-9, but this is my old ART-2000 on Reed 3P "12 
"9.5 Reed is much cheaper than "12 inch, i hope you can get one in your price range. 

Here is a picture of short Reed arms from ArtisanFidelity 

You might ask Ralph Karsten (Atma-sphere) whether the standard 9-inch Triplanar will mount on the new SL1200GAE.  If it does, very good choice.  A 12-inch version of the TP is now available, as well.  I own both a 10.5-inch Reed 2A and a 9-inch TP.  Both are excellent, but I know for sure that the 9-inch TP will not mount on an SP10 Mk2 or Mk3, which is why I bought the 10.5-inch Reed.  However, this was before the 12-inch TP came into existence.

Yes I was hoping @atmosphere would chime in. I couldn't wait and just bought the 9" off of us audiomart just to good of a deal and from a well respected guy. Anyone know the cost to go to the SE version which I hope is possible. 

For what it's worth, you can call Ralph at Atma-sphere in Minnesota, any time.  If he's available, he probably would be glad to discuss the TP variants. Ralph is "good people".

Sheesh.

OK, we've done several SL1200G (or GAE) machines so far. Both the Triplanar 12" and the 9.5" arms can be mounted. I recommend replacement of the platter pad as well. We fabricate a special armboard; the concern is that the rigidity of the plinth and subchassis must be as rigid and dead as possible, so that if the platter is vibrating in some plane, the arm is also moving in that same plane so the noise cannot be transduced (the principle behind our model 208 turntable as well).

Most of the armboards I've seen aftermarket don't address this issue and so might have a bit of coloration.

The finished combination is spectacular. Technics really did their homework on the new SL1200.

Ralph, no rush, I am aware that you have done this. I sent you a email looking to get an arm board or information on it, looking for the best way to mount it, would like not to drill into the plinth though. The arm I got is from John I think you know him. Much appreciated Jerry

Ralph, So sorry that I volunteered you for TP questions.  That was unfair of me.  (I think maybe that was why you wrote, "sheesh".)

Dear @jtsnead :  " Want to change the stock arm. ", what's wrong with. What do you do not like?

The gimball bearing on the Technics arms is really very good design and your GAE tonearm is made from magnesium that's similar on some of the top SME build material.

Been a removable headshell design is really an advantage because you can match your tonearm to any cartridge out there That the TP or other tonearms just can't do it no matter what. ) only by making changes in the headshell characteristics: different build material, different shapes, different weigth, different headshell wires, etc, etc.
In the other side if you want it something better you can do it through the headshells and changing the tonearm internal wiring with out to change the tonearm or invest 3.5K that you can save for other items as could be a better mat and clamp or damping footers and obviously buying more LP´s.

You have several options before you can really feel the necessity to change the tonearm.

Only an opinion.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Ralph, So sorry that I volunteered you for TP questions. That was unfair of me. (I think maybe that was why you wrote, "sheesh".)

No, it wasn't, and no worries.

would like not to drill into the plinth though. The arm I got is from John I think you know him.

@jtsnead , there's no need for that- if done correctly, its all reversible with no evidence it ever happened.

" Want to change the stock arm. ", what's wrong with. What do you do not like?
The gimball bearing on the Technics arms is really very good design and your GAE tonearm is made from magnesium that's similar on some of the top SME build material.

The stock arm is competitive with many high end arms.

But both the Triplanar and the some of the SMEs have something on the Technics arm, which is that the bearings are in the plane of the LP rather than the arm tube. This allows for more consistent tracking force in bass passages and negotiating warp. It makes a difference as to how well the arm can play bass. The Triplanar is far more adjustable, and has much harder bearings; VTA can be adjusted on the fly, and the arm tube is damped for less coloration. A removable headshell means that there are more mechanical connections, which can degrade the sound when dealing with very small signal levels. That is why the SMEs and the Triplanar do not have a removable headshell.

Read my mind atmosphere it is good that it's reversible stock arm is very good I just always liked the look of the Tri planar thinking about the are board from you atmosphere stay tune I will miss removable head shells but the comes down to once you find the cartridge you'd like your tend to just use that 1 anyway

Dear @atmasphere : " But both the Triplanar and the some of the SMEs have something on the Technics arm, which is that the bearings are in the plane of the LP rather than the arm tube. This allows for more consistent tracking force in bass passages and negotiating warp. It makes a difference as to how well the arm can play bass. The Triplanar is far more adjustable, and has much harder bearings; VTA can be adjusted on the fly, and the arm tube is damped for less coloration. A removable headshell means that there are more mechanical connections, which can degrade the sound when dealing with very small signal levels. That is why the SMEs and the Triplanar do not have a removable headshell. "

All that is what we learned but that never no one proved in a scientific way: with facts out of the theory. Something as myths.

Yes, maybe I can be more mind-calm with out removable headshell additional connection joints but this is not the whole history as it’s not what the you say about the bearing plane where it’s extremely important for unipivots but with the solid Technics tonearms that is BS.

Are you trying to terrorize the OP and other gentlemans only because you has a very close relationship with TP? I can proved " face to face " in your own system that a removable headshell tonearm design outperforms the TP everything the same.
Always is the same problem with you: you are biased $$$$ in comercial way and you don’t post as a true audiophile where your only interest is to hel given a unbiased advise a non-comercial one. You can help to your customers but your latest post here is part of that corrupted AHEE where we all belongs but you are in the darker side. Why not let the people to learn, the OP money is and comes from him IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY and your adviise has no true and real foundations. It's very easy to " spend " the money of other person.

@jtsnead you already own as five cartridges and now suddenly you posted:

" comes down to once you find the cartridge you’d like your tend to just use that 1 anyway. "

Don’t tell me: in which planet because that almost never happens in our audio world.

Do what you want it, I really don’t care. My opinuion was and is for you can use your money ( not mine. ) in the best way and that for me is not that TP or SME change. But this is me.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Yes, maybe I can be more mind-calm with out removable headshell additional connection joints but this is not the whole history as it’s not what the you say about the bearing plane where it’s extremely important for unipivots but with the solid Technics tonearms that is BS.

Its simple. The bearing *style* isn't the issue. Think about two people carrying a couch. On level ground, they both carry the same weight. Going up stairs, the one on the bottom carries more.

If the tone arm has the bearings in the plane of the LP, the weight on teh stylus remains pretty constant with bass and warp. But if the bearing is higher, the tracking force diminishes faster with bass and warp. This is easy to prove out with geometry and is why arms like the Triplanar, SME 5 and ET are set up that way.  Some arms (like the old Fidelity Research) attempt to solve this by designing the counterweight to hang below the arm tube (which the Technics does not do, but would be an improvement for that arm) but this is not as effective as placing the bearings in the right place to begin with.
 

@atmasphere . sending email about arm

@rauliruegas  Can't everyone have their own opinion I mean really, these type of comments are why I don't contribute much on this forum

@jtsnead : Obviously can and that's why he did it and that's why I gave mine and you and other gentlemans gave their own. We are in a free world and I'm not saying I can't be wrong and I always am willing to learn from you or every one.

I did not tell you stay away from TP, I only gave my opinion why this time is better stay away from any tonearm change saving money for other better time in the near future but as I said it I don't care what you decide about because it's not my money and it's not me whom have to live with.

I'm sorry to disturb you through my posts, Ionly try to help.

R.

All good this hobby is a passion and the people that pursue it are very passionate

raul, I must say I'm disappointed by your reference to Ralph as a rookie.  

You and I met some years ago and I have great respect for your audio knowledge and that in person you impress as a real gentleman.  But some of your replies here seem quite condescending.

Ralph can speak for himself but he has been in the audio business more than 30 years I believe.  He may not design and build tonearms but he has the experience of utilizing a number of arms in the tables he builds and modifications he offers.  That is not a basis for being labeled a rookie.

He prefers the design of the TP arms, you do not.  One thing I've learned in decades of participation in this hobby, there are no absolute answers.

Dear @pryso : How you doing, I hope everything is fine with you and your family.

Look, I understand your point but in reality that's not the main subject of my latest post to him.

He is an expert with tube design. I said it's a roockie on overall tonearm design because I belive in this and that he choosed to make his busine$$ through the TP speaks about.

I'm not against him as a fact I'm not against any one inside or outside the audio world. You know me and know I'm not that kind of person.

Your post appreciated.

R.

I love the stock arm.  I think its pretty darn good.  It takes some time getting the right headshell and so on but it sounds really good to these ears.  Cannot see how it can get much better and I have heard some great tonearms.

Tzh21y west is your favorite head shell with what cartridge

 Cannot see how it can get much better and I have heard some great tonearms.

As I have mentioned, the stock arm is as good or better than many 'high end audio' arms. It could be playing bass better though and could be a bit more neutral (the arm tube talks back to the cartridge a bit).

@pryso FWIW, Atma-Sphere was established 42 years ago as of August of this year.

Ralph, congratulations for that.  I knew it was some time ago you established Atma-Sphere, but at my age narrowing down specifics for time is not always easy.  

I will only add that nearly 30 years ago I owned a pair of your MA-1 amps, 100 wpc as I recall.  Within their limitations they were one of the most musically enjoyable components I ever had.  Unfortunately because of the power requirements for my speakers and their impedance curve it was not a good match for complex, dynamic music.  Otherwise the amps themselves were amazing and your support was exceptional.  I remain impressed to this day.

Now back to tonearms. ;^)

@atmasphere 

 Atma-Sphere was established 42 years ago as of August of this year.

Damn, i was born in the same year :) 

I agree that the stock arm on the GAE is outstanding.  I have not compared it with a Triplanar, but have an SME on another TT, and a VPI 3D w/dual pivot on another and compared to them it is easier to set up and sounds as good as or better than the others all things considered.  In terms of headshells, I use the Zupreme and more recently have found the Yamamoto HS-4S carbon to be even better.  Actually a lot better.  Both have azimuth adjustment and weigh a reasonable 12 g or so.  My favorite of several cartridges is an Ortofon Windfeld and my preferred phono preamp is a Conrad-Johnson TEA2MAX with a Bob's SUT.

Reed is out of Lithuania. I was born there. Interesting... 

Dear @billstevenson : Good that you like it because Technics usually does not make mistakes of that tonearm caliber where other say to change the stock arm..

Problem is that atmasphere is a seller and always post to promote something of his busine$$.

I hope @jtsnead could talk with you about. He really needs help not some one trying to " spend " his money.

Anyway, other than those headshells you are using did you rewired the tonearm internally?. Could be a " significant " up-grade specially with that great Windfeld cartridge you own.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@invictus005 

Reed is out of Lithuania. I was born there. Interesting...  

 Oh, really? That's nice. Loads of friend in Lithuania. I went there to meet up with people from Reed to buy my 3p tonearm. Vilnius is not far from St.Petersburg. 

Raul,

What arm wire have you tried that worked well?  The Windfeld is a very nice cartridge isn't it?

Bill

DeaR @billstevenson : yOU CAN TRY THIS, IT WILL MAKE THAT YOU EXPERIENCE AS YOU WERE LISTENING A NEW AND DIFFERENT TONEARM A WAY BETTER ONE:

https://www.audiyo.com/kits/tonearm-rewire-kit/rewire-kit.html

R.

If we have to rewire Technics GAE tonearm or Technics 10.5 on SL1000R then i don't know what to say ... Why shall we rewire reference tonearm from Technics made today for audiophiles  ??? 

It make sence to rewire an old SL1210mkII, but a brand new GAE ???   

I put a Jelco 750D on my 1210Mk5.  Decent improvement.  I also put an Origin Live Conqueror on of my 1210 Mk5g.  Waste of time.  Standard arm superior.
I like the look of the brand new Jelcos.  Visually they will fit with the iconic Technics look and I can only imagine they will be better than the older Jelcos that were decent.

@chakster Because silver wire makes a significant improvement on small signal level phono. 

Silver or Copper it is all depends on individual preferences, there no absolute. I've tried Silver Van Den Hul on my old EPA-100, but i use copper since that on all my tonearms. Also what's the point to use Silver inside the tonearm tube if the external cable is copper? 

Cardas or Discovery thin and flexible tonearm wires have the best value. Zu Audio Mission Phono RCA copper from ebay has amazing value. 

Also no problem with stock wire inside some nice vintage tonearms. 
  

@chakster Cardas was the worst wire out of any I've tried, IMO. Just lazy and indistinct sounding. van den hul MCS150M is my favorite. 

Just because the tonearm cable is copper, it doesn't mean that the silver tonearm wire portion will not have a positive impact. From my experience, it has a very big impact. 

I use silver plated van den Hul 501 DIN to RCA tonearm cable, comes stock with SME. So far I haven't found anything better.

For removable cartridge leads, I've settled on Ortofon LW 800 S, which is a mixture of solid silver strands and silver plated copper. 

I don't use silver anywhere else in the system as it becomes overwhelmingly too much. I find copper to be better. 

I have no idea how you can compare the tonearm with one set of internal wires to the same toneam with another set of internal wires. You must have a computer memory as the rewire process could take a few hrs. Or you need multiply samples of the same tonearm to compare. Cardas copper set of 4 litz wires for tonearm is $25, Discovery wire set is very close in price (nice high quality, affordable wires for everyone). As i said no problem with stock wires in good tonearms, i think GAE is one of them.

I can compare for example Reed 3p tonearm that comes with ultra high-end cryo treated cable from cartridge pins to phono stage to some nice vintage toneam with stock internal wires, detachabe headshell and din connector in between and it is not necessary that cryo treaded ultra high-end expensive wires will make the sound of Reed more pleasant.

Much more depends on the cartridge, if the wire is good it will be the last thing i will change. I’m not gonna rewire tonearm 5 times to try different wires, but i would rather change 5 different cartridges. I think i already find nice interconnect and speaker cables made by Chris Sommovigo (Stereolab, Stereovox, and now Black Cat) this guy designed tonearm cable for Continuum Cobra tonearm.

Very good or ultra high-end tonearm cable is the last thing to bother (imo), the difference in price is huge sometimes, only if you have find your absolute reference cartridge and tonearm and everything else then it’s time to experiment with different tonearm wires. I believe we do not use bad cables and it make sence to change something if we’re not happy about the sound. But what if we’re happy about the sound?

Some audiogon members always advice to another members to change something or upgrade something before the buyer even start listening to his new turntables (GAE for example). It’s endless quest how to spend more money instead of enjoying music with a nice gear.

@chakster I had an OEM Rega tonearm which I used for testing. Rewired it a number of times and tried most of the better know tonearm wire on the market. Cartridges used were OC9/II and ART9. I have since moved on to 2M Black and SME 309, but the results still hold true.

I have an exceptional sound memory and extensive knowledge in what to listen for. Familiarity of the system is also a key factor. I consistently prefer silver wire when it comes to anything related to phono. I see that Ortofon, SME, John Curl, and many others have also come to a similar conclusion. My preferred manufacturer of silver phono cabling is van den Hul.

As for recommending other members to modify commercial equipment, I would never do that. But upgrading the cartridge leads to Ortofon's silver LW 800 S and tonearm cable to van den Hul's D-501 Silver Hybrid would have my highest recommendation. 

Problem is that atmasphere is a seller and always post to promote something of his busine$$.

@rauliruegas I'm calling BS on this. Every Triplanar we've installed on SL1200G 'tables was shipped to us by the customer. Get your facts straight. 

I am quite sure the Technics tonearm is good. I have listened to the stock 1200G more than a few times. 

I was the first to post on this Forum about the Technics TT and about replacing the stock arm.

 I have now done so and am Happy that I did. As Ralph states; I had the TT sent to him. He did nothing to promote the mod to me.

Final Thought; The Technics and probably anyone of the great arms out there Will be Game Changers.

 I have spoken to Bill Voss; Technics is listening. They are moving forward in the High End.

Keep your mind, eyes and ears open. More to come.

Best to All on this Journey 

I know that the stock arm is very good. I also picked up a GAE version of this table and they sound the same. I have always like the TP arms since I first saw them years ago and the company started in my state so I have kind of followed their progression. I like the look of them and that is driving 25% of my decision. With have the G here also I could do a fairly easy swap between the stock tablle/arm and the GAE with the TP, but it will be 2 to 3 weeks.

@nkonor I pm'd you wanted some pics sent to me please if you could.

@atmasphere : "   Every Triplanar we've installed on SL1200G 'tables was shipped to us by the customer. "

So Do you do for free?, BS. That's a seller here and in Venus or Jupiter.

R.

Dear @nkonor: "  The Technics and probably anyone of the great arms out there Will be Game Changers. "

Bad move or wrong way to go because the stock Technics GAE tonearm is a good one so the first step is not what you did it or the OP did too but to re-wire the Technics tonearm and use some other headshells not only builded with different materials and different weigth but with better headshell wires and headshell wires connectors. 

All those can be do it through 1877 as I posted to @billstevenson .

@nkonor, I know that you don't care but you never will know how good  is that Technics tonearm. 

"""  I have always like the TP arms since I first saw them years ago ..""

we don't buy audio items and especially tonearms jus " because I like it ", of course that a choice like that is each one privilege.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

^^ If you want to say stuff, you have to make sense.
You've presented nothing in the way of argument to back your position, just personal attacks and accusations based on nothing. You need to up your game.

I wish someone will put short version of the Reed 3P tonearm on new Technics. Reed is great, but probably unknown in the USA, so people always talking about TriPlanar.