Should Sound Quality of Computer Audio be improved
Wow! Thread resurrected? Tbeebout of course everything you say makes perfect sense - but this thread died because we got tired of trying to reason with pettyofficer - he has his agenda and cannot be reasoned with. However, he has bravely chosen to fight the corruption of the computer audio industry and save music from certain death so we need not fear! |
PettyOfficer, there is no such thing as format competition, nor is there any such thing as a format monopoly. The "CD monopoly" didn't edge out 8 track tapes, nor did the "DVD monopoly" edge out Laserdisc. 8 track and Laserdisc were simply inferior formats that fewer and fewer people bought. The smaller the market, the more companies would need to charge to continue printing media in these formats. Eventually, bicycles with two equal-sized wheels edged out bicycles with huge rear wheels -- this was not a equal-sized-wheel bicycle monopoly, just a market shift. Here's another analogy. In the robber baron age, Carnegie steel and a number of other competing companies merged to form U.S. Steel -- a true monopoly. They were a monopoly because, if you wanted steel, you had to buy from them. They were basically no other companies selling steel, and new companies could not start because the competition from U.S. steel was overwhelming. The steel itself was the commodity, however, and that's what was monopolized. Today, music is the commodity, not CDs (or SACDs, or DVD-Audio, or HDCD). Hundreds of companies sell you music, and they compete against each other. They sell through different websites, different services, etc. I see that you want other options, but those options will, some day, disappear. This is not due to some conspiracy, or some conscious marketing ploy to replace CD with downloads, but because companies make less and less money on sales of physical media, and so they stop printing them. In the end, the competition is not over formats, but over music. These companies' competition comes from other companies' music, not other companies' formats. Do you disagree? |
Timlub- you haven't seen my responses for the last two weeks. You jump into the middle of the conversation, and start hurling unsubstantiated allegations. Tpreaves- you start making general broad strokes about someones personnal life that you know nothing about. You have never met me, you know absolutely nothing about me. You decide to make it up as you go along. If this reflects the attitude of those who wish to promote Computer Audio, your attitude speaks volumes. Is this what Computer Audio does to everybody? Why would this Audio Format create this type of attitude in people, as opposed to all other Audio Formats? I use Music for personal enjoyment, not to polish my ego- nor to rub someone's nose in it. I enjoy having choices in multiple Audio Formats, I have more choices to make based on Sound Quality. I do not take an elitist attitude that only one Audio Format is the Elite compared to all others. I hear mixed bag of Sound Quality when comparing Audio Formats, none of them hardly elite above all others. You can call me names, or whatever- I am sticking to this! I do use Computer Audio, on those selections that it does provide better Sound Quality. Use it exclusively, and I lose other better sounding options on certain selections. I am a Consumer interested in the best quality, and I go where I find the best quality. You wish to eliminate those places ( Music CD Stores ), or make me have to purchase over longer distance- and pay extra for shipping. Make me wait weeks to listen to Music CD instead of just taking it home from the Store. I know these are road blocks designed to corral people towards Computer Audio. It is this manipulation that bothers me the most. If Computer Audio is the Answer to Life/ Universe/ and Everything- why would you need to manipulate anyone? Your attitude speaks volumes about your intent to manipulate. Try selling Computer Audio instead of just pulling everyone's string, and pushing their buttons. People will resent it less, I certainly would. You have to force everyone to listen to Computer Audio exclusively? Why, what's wrong with it? That is what I ask. All that I hear is what's right with it- so why the necessity to manipulate? |
Loving your tenacity Pettyofficer, All recent DACs do the sample rates you mention & will continue to do so. If you have a really old DAC that at best will do 44.1k, then you can dither down to that, while keeping the original file safe until you get a newer DAC. Even your phone will do most of these rates! Forget the model T. You know what I'm getting at. Don't be a dinosaur. Good DACs are cheap, very good & will do all the rates you need. Better than the highly rated old DACs of the past. It all moved forward & the chip sets got cheaper. To answer the rest of your 050112 post you may as well read my above posts as we have already been there. I'm am sorry you don't seem to get the gist of it. You can't say I did try to help you. You have all the choice you could wish for. Possibly too much! Understand the beauty of the file as a format, everything reads it these days, & always will. If you want to play CDs why not just burn your own from the file. All computers will do that. Thank you Pettyofficer old friend. It was fun. I never posted so much. Now I must say goodbye. Embrace the future. |
Like I said before, quit responding to his rants and he will go away. It's his M.O. if you guys haven't noticed. Next week it will be something else he'll jump on the soapbox about.I gather,by his username, that he is an old wore out retired Navy man with nothing else to do in his life. You can never have a rational conversation with him because he is always right no matter what the subject is. Believe me, I've been around plenty of guys like this. |
Wow, I've not looked at this thread in 2 weeks, pop on to find the same ole LAME arguments going on (that make no sense) by Petty Officer. No one is going to get through to this guy, we are now imperialist, capitalist, Elitist.... And those terrible manufacturers that are in business to make money... How dare they! He is obviously ticked that he sunk a bunch of money into a couple of formats that didn't make it.... That has nothing to do with computer audio. and Pettyofficer....YOU telling everyone what WE think and what WE believe and what WE are doing is really tiring.....Especially when you are wrong about it all... I feel for you, but you are beating on about 25 or 30 audiophiles.... Take your battle to the blood sucking pig elitist, capitalist, imperialist, communist...oh wait you didn't say communist did you, YOU are just acting like one..If you are an engineer,build the products that you so hardily fight for and take it to the bank... You can then join the club. |
No getting you, Chadeffect. How is the requirement of getting a DAC that can decode: 16/44.1, 24/88, 24/96, 24/176, 24/192, and any additional Sampling Rates to be inserted inbetween these- not elitist? You are going to need a Specialist/ Elitist/ Expensive DAC every Month for each additional Sampling Rate. A New DAC every Month, sounds expensive to me! Ditto for USB to Digital Converter, or USB Input for DAC. Poor example of model T, since only Ford made model T car. Ford is hardly the only car Manufacturer today- where is the potential for Monopoly? Monopolies are created by minimizing the purchasing choices that Consumers have. Eliminating all other Audio Formats for the sake of one, Computer Audio, certainly minimizes Consumer Purchasing Choices. This gives the Manufacturers more power to enforce an anti-Capitalist Monopoly, and leaves the Consumer weaker to defend against a Monopoly take over of a Capitalist Audio Market. We are going to be the Computer Audio Manufacturer's "B_TCH" for a good long time. Hardly in a position to demand higher quality (High Rez. Downloads) with more Music Selection. You take what they give you in a Monopoly, or you don't get the "Son of a B_TCH". That means whatever has the most profit margin that benefits the Manufacturer only! Your conciderations of High Rez. become irrelevant compared to profit. You don't have the alternate purchasing choice as leverage, you gave that away in the form of alternate Audio Formats. You do yourself no favors, nor anyone else. Can't you see that? |
Pettyofficer, No! The high res download is different to the SACD &DVDA problems. As I explained, you do not need Specialist/elitest/expensive equipment to play high res files. That is why SACD suffered. The beauty now is everything can play these files. Also high res does not need any extra process to make it. The master usually is high res. so if anything, it's more work to dither down to CD quality or lower. There is no risk, as whatever kit you buy will play all the above, and if not, the file could easily be converted to what you need. You will always get CDs as a physical disk. There are so many already manufactured. You will just order them from storage places like amazon's warehouses. But just remember the polution they cause... Is it a monopoly that Ford don't make a model T anymore? What replaced it was way better so the T became history. A mark to show how far we have come. Can't you see that? |
" Where I live the high st music & film stores are gone due to the market moving to download etc, no myth. ", same here Chadeffect. Why then does everyone keep saying that no-one is threatening my free use of CD? Why does everyone keep demanding "PROOF" of this? Why do you guy's keep arguing conflicting aspects of the same arguement? In any regard, my arguement is "NOT" mute. This is a Monopoly that you are describing. Monopolies do not supply high quality at low cost- that means high quality like High Rez. Downloads. They may be available temporarily as a hook to get more interested. They will quickly disappear due to the same market that you describe. Manufacturer's will quickly realize that most of market is purchasing CD Rez. Computer Audio, not High Rez. Profits will dictate the market, High Rez. just doesn't have the profit margin. Now that we have put all of our eggs in one basket ( By allowing market to eliminate all other competing Audio Formats ), this will be the final blow to High Rez. anything. Proof of this- SACD, DVD Audio! Where did they go? This is the market risk to any consumer of Audio products. It is the risk that any consumer faces dealing with a Monopoly on Audio Formats. We end up being like fish out of water. Better yet, we end up being fish in a barrel for Manufacturer's to take pop shots at. I am not anti-Capitalist. Fact is I am pro Capitalist by being anti-Monopoly. Monopolies only hurt Markets- that includes the Audio Market! Monopolies themselves are anti-Capitalist since there is no competition- so where is the competition here in this Audio Market? |
Pettyofficer, I think you need to assume that downloads will be at least the same as CD res. (if not MP3). If the vendor offers higher res for download then it will say the option 192/24 etc. Where I live the high st music & film stores are gone due to the market moving to download etc. no myth. Gone. The record labels have already done the deals with iTunes & various online libraries. The conduit for marketing & online availability is done. Go look. It's all there. Anything you want. Forget the hassle you are having with your pc for a moment. Meta data, ASIO etc forgotten. mac have that sorted, & Microsoft is not that far behind, but the apps to drive online libraries do it all. Your argument is mute. iPods/iPads/smartphone/Bd & DvD players all are compatible these days. Choose bandwidth & press play or stream or download & enjoy. |
Chadeffect- most of what you say is true; however, I have been griping about lack of "Music Selection" in High Rez. Downloads- prior to replacing any Audio Format. You have been countering that CD Resolution Downloading is better than CD, and that CD Ripping sounds better than CD. You say that is improvement enough. I say the improvement is like the difference between CD and SACD, where did that get us with SACD? Minimum Music Selection with High Rez. Downloads as well as SACD, where did that get us with SACD? Where is it supposed to get us with High Rez. Downloads? There is no plan here to get us to "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Are those Downloads supposed to be CD resolution, or High Rez.? What exactly are you planning on replacing other Audio Formats with, CD resolution downloads, or High Rez. downloads? If it is going to be 99% CD resolution, some might think that all of the extra effort (Software, Configuration, MetaData, Wasapi, Kernel Streaming...etc) might not be worth replacing some Audio Formats. Some might think that 99% High Rez. is a Bridge a few light years too far to bet the Farm (Other Audio Formats) on. Reasonable people can reason differently. That is the reason that I do not believe that "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads' is written in concrete. It sounds like the unsinkable Titanic, or the unsinkable Battleship. These are either Myths, or the best layed plans of Mice and Men failing badly. If you think that this is "Good S__t", you haven't seen nothin' yet! This is just too thin to take to the Bank, more or less replace all other Audio Formats with. Keep working on it! |
Petty, No you haven't been gripping about the lack of hi res. You have been gripping about losing formats that are likely to be left behind when in your opinion the replacement is not ready. & gripping how great every other format sounds in comparison, & how you were ripped off by SACDs, & how Microsoft & apple are killing off music & making it irrelevant. But I challenged these notions by saying all your formats (hi res or not)were likely to be made from these files for at least the last 10-15 years & are compatible with everything while having the same master source quality. There is no railway just open land to cross any way you prefer. Freedom. Play any file type anywhere with no need for bulky specialist hardware like TTs. I have repeatedly explained that Downloadable file formats are (or can be) an exact copy of the studio master. And no matter what comes along you will always be able to play these files regardless of their resolution. They are standard. Everything plays them or can convert them. All modern studios are 24/192 compatable now. So the high resolution formats you seem to be looking for will become more & more available. But in the meantime there are plenty of recordings to be had. But don't be fooled. The recording is what is important. Not just the resolution. |
"You can chose CD quality or higher if you want", haven't I just been gripping about lack of Music Selection in High Rez. (higher?) Downloads- and I am not keeping up? High Rez. Downloads are what's not keeping up, more or less ready to replace all other Audio Formats! You don't have the product to sell; never-the-less, you are going to phase out all product from other competing Audio Formats. Train Wreck- this sounds like your trying to run your Train (High Rez. Computer Audio) without any track! We tried this with SACD/DVD-Audio, and they both ended in a ditch. I wonder why- duhhh! You are going to try it a third time with a Minimum Music Selection again, with High Rez. Downloads. I must be on acid to "EXPECT THE EXACT SAME RESULT AGAIN"! "NO ONE IS REPLACING other Formats". They are just going to disappear by osmosis? You know that when Magicians make things disappear- it is not real Magic, right? Oh, but maybe you do believe in real Magic. You have nothing of higher Rez. than CD to replace CD- minimum selection at best. You want to replace all other Railroads after you have run your Train off of the track. I prefer to be on the Railroad that not only keeps its Trains on the Track, but reliably keeps them running on time. Crazy me, on Acid, and practicing Defensive Consumer Purchasing- demanding to see Product (High Rez. Music Selection) that you don't have to sell. Why not just sell Hot Air, or Helium- same damn thing! Is that what you are selling- High Rez. Downloadable imaginary Pet Rocks. You get holier than thou when someone refuses to buy them. I don't need to purchase imaginary anything- you have nothing to sell. Keep working on it! |
"This thread is train wreck..." Petty is your real identity really Joseph Broady? Better slow down.... |
Petty, Don't you understand that you can use your CDs in a computer? You can rip it at CD quality if you like. Or just play it. If ripped, it can even sound better than the original! As many have said above NO ONE IS REPLACING other formats. But you are correcting in thinking sooner or later it probably will, as technology moves on it will. Market forces, plus an unnessassary extra manufacturing process to make CDs etc from the studio master file.(WAV or AIFF) BUT (!) You can download anything you like at normal(CD) resolution. MP3s are available to as a convenient way for those who wish to store many tracks at lower quality. But that is your choice. You can choose CD quality or higher if you want. You can keep that original and convert to MP3s for the car or your phone/iPod. Just remember the CDs you like & the vinyl you like we're probably mastered as files! Got it? The glass master to manufacture the CD is cut from the file(wav/aiff). Keep up. |
I compare Music Selection between lower than CD resolution MP3, and Music Selection of High Rez. Downloads. What a difference, and "NO" your explanation of low rez. MP3 doesn't even come close to covering this point spread. You think that Computer Audio is a done deal, extreme limitation in Music Selection of High Rez. Downloads "SCREAMS" different! It screams uncertainty. So long as your Computer Audio High Rez. remains uncertain, I have nothing to take to the Bank- and neither do you! Same uncertainty existed in Music Selection for SACD, and DVD Audio- where did they go? Going down the exact same road for a third time, this time it will lead us someplace different? You want everyone to drop their existing Audio Format, and come along for the ride? All of us being connvinced that this time it will be different? We were robbed investing in these other two Formats with limited Music Selection. You want to lure us with the same limited Music Selection again in High Rez. Computer Audio? No Sir, you show us the Product first BEFORE we invest in it! You got no Product? Well, then you've got nothing to replace all other Audio Formats with- atleast something of significant Higher Resolution. Try EARNING our trust instead of just demanding it on a silver platter. This makes you upset- tough! Can't stand the heat, get out of the Audio Market. We want to buy Music, not Software! You have very little of either in High Rez., and you want to brag about replacing all other Audio Formats? Bragging rights have to be "EARNED", and you haven't earned yours yet. Keep working on it! |
Petty, your premis continues to be wrong. I have explained MP3. You can choose if you want higher rez. So get off that argument of low bandwidth. It's a red herring. If anything, CD is low bandwidth today. You have more choice than ever. In fact you could even download music which never would have been put out by a record company. New artists with no A&R interference. Pure expression if you are lucky or interested. What you don't seem to understand is the music is stored as a file which can be read by any entertainment device or computer. So you are free to play music in pretty much any environment. That is good. I don't see how it makes audio irrelevant? It makes it accessible. And if you want to get all audiophile you can. Which bit do you not understand? Pardon the pun. |
Get over yourself- Gsself! Simple differences of opinion are not "Train Wrecks", more akin to a "Democracy"? Revisionist History? I can't think of a single Monopoly where the Economy thrived- going back thru the entire Economic History of the U.S.! Perhaps I am wrong, can you give me an example? I believe that they have a tendency to cause Recessions, and Depressions. The Audio Market is, after all a Market. I don't believe that it is immune to these. Change can either be good, offering more choices for the Consumer empowering him. Change can also be bad, eliminating options that limit the Consumer depowering him. I am simply trying to acknowledge the economic risk here for the Consumer, in limiting his options to just only one Audio Format- Computer Audio Downloading. The risk here is in making Audio so irrelevant (Compared to other popular Computer Functions) that even Computer Audio goes by the wayside. As you said, "Change is universal, nothing stands still"! Nothing makes Audio more irrelevant than lower than CD Resolution MP3. Keep on lowering the resolution to the point of irrelevancy/ oblivion. Why waste the Processing Power keeping it around? If your idea of change is to make Audio irrelevant to its inevitable end, I disagree with you that this is a "Good Idea" for change sake only. Needs of the many, the many need Music- not Audio made irrelevant no matter how much Profit can be made off of this. Your type of change puts the needs of the Computer over the needs of Audio, especially Computer Audio. How does this help us who are in the Consumer business of Audio? We pay more, we get less resolution/sound quality. "WOW- I'll buy THAT for a dollar"! |
Petty everything moves on. Change is universal. Nothing stands still. You are seeing the dawn of medias all converging. The equipment is better than its ever been, and I'm sure it will continue to refine & redefine. Whether other formats survive or not only time will tell. But if they do not, I doubt it will because of any of our opinions. It's a global market. The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few! You can still burn (record!) your own CDs if you wish. I suspect the devices of the future will be so compact & multifunctional that software (records) that need their own separate hardware to just to do one thing (I.e TT/CD players/Reel to Reel/DATs etc) will be forgotten. It will just mean that the software will be played on all devices with no need for all these hard formats. Don't worry it will be much better. |
Wow, hit a nerve? I am not trying to tell you what you want, I am trying to understand what "IT IS" that you want with: "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads"! It would appear that you desire a vacuum of any other competing Audio Format, and the elimination of any alternate purchasing choices that I might have. I am kind of surprised by this! You say that the Market will dictate this regardless of what you desire. We call that a "Monopoly" in a Capitalist Society "WHENEVER" a Manufacturer manipulates the Market towards a single purchasing choice. You say that this is the way it is going to be. I say that it is very, very, very bad- and requires immediate correction. Any Monopoly always turns out to be bad for the Consumer, even eventually bad for the Manufacturer, and especially bad for the Market (This case: Audio)! Economic History bears this out, it isn't even close to being arguementative- from the Great Depression to our current Recession. Monopolies collapse- and you want to put Computer Audio in the middle of this collapse? Well, I guess that will leave us with "No Audio Format"! Thanks alot for looking after us instead of your ego. |
"I want-Live And Let Live- with all Audio Formats, including Computer Audio"! Sheesh- I have to quote myself? Can you guy's read? Did I.Q.'s just drop off sharply? Mapman- you are completely way off base! I want to be able to play my CD's in a CD Player, and be able to Rip them- I want both! I also want to be able to Download. I do not want one to be mutually exclusive of all others, as some Computer enthusiasts would desire. I do use Computer Audio, and CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, XRCD, K2 HDCD. I pick and choose the Sound Quality that I like across many Formats. Most Formats sound like a mixed bag of S.Q.! Same release in one Format might sound wonderful, in another Format it sounds awful. Different release ends up in reverse order. People are generalizing about which Format sounds best. Whatever your preferences may be. A single Audio Format, Computer Audio Downloading, eliminates my purchasing power by minimizing my choices as a Consumer of other Audio Formats. This would be desirable for Manufacturer's to maximize profits. It would also allow Manufacturer's to shoot Consumers like "Fish in a Barrel". This is what you think the Market will dictate, no matter what you or I think; But, you desire it never the less. Yes, the Market can dictate a Monopoly of only one Audio Format. No one likes a Monopoly that makes the American Consumer weak, and helpless. Eliminate the purchasing power of the Consumer, and there will be a backlash! Backlash against what? The only thing that you will be left with will be Computer Audio. You want to exclude other Audio Formats, and you are very aggressive towards that goal. I am arguing a losing battle of inclusion, which you seem to be picking apart like meat off of a corpse! Not exactly Live and Let Live towards all other Audio Formats. Make up your mind what you really want! You can't be a Predator, and be polite towards your Prey (Other Audio Formats)- maybe if you were a Spider you might be a little bit more convincing. If you call my other Audio Formats Prey, I believe you. You think that you can be polite about it? |
Quote: "You want"Live, and Wage War to Eliminate All Other Audio Formats"! Not true! Quote: "You want "Live, and Wage War to Eliminate All Other Audio Formats" Not True! Quote: "You want me, the Consumer, to look weak and helpless having to rely on only one Audio Format- Computer Audio" Not True! Petty Officer, if I understand you correctly, you don't use computer audio.. all anyone here has done is try to be convincing why you might try it and why we love it. No one has tried to KILL all other audio formats. I have a turntable, 2 cd players and a tuner. I use computer audio. The only militant responses have been yours. Sorry I recommended you go fishing, didn't think you would act like the fish was a relative or something. Yes, I'm sure there is more stress for the fish. I solve stress kicking back and listening to tunes and yes, most often using computer audio.... I can see there is no convincing you this is a good format, you constantly turn suggestions and our own experience into battles and then call all of us Militant. I'm on no crusade brother and done with this thread. Enjoy your tunes everyone, I'll talk with you on some other pages. Tim |
"Just because you find it relaxing, doesn't mean the Fish feel relaxed as well." That's a great line Petty. Just so I understand, is what you are recommended to battle the tyranny rained upon us that we only play our CDs on CD players and not rip them to computer for playback? And never download any music under any circumstances? I think we get your point. Now tell us the right things to do to battle this oppression. How do we know if we are successful? CD sales per year start going back up maybe? Honestly, I probably already own most of the music I know of that I really care about. I have such a backlog of things to listen to these days (thanks to digital audio and the internet) that I find it hard justifying buying more. There is just so much to soak in...its somewhat overwhelming. SOmetimes I truly wish AL Gore never invented the internet! |
Petty, the only one behaving with militant aggression is you. I'm guessing it's because you came onto a computer audio forum with your own anti-computer audio bias and agenda, posed a question and (surprise, surprise) were disagreed with. At first it wasn't just disagreement but also some attempts at helpful suggestions - which you basically ignored and/or ridiculed. You then completely misinterpreted this for aggression, ultimatums, threats etc. It's actually becoming quite comical - that's the only reason why I'm still discussing this with you. It's kinda fun and entertaining to see what outrageous comment you'll utter next as your argument completely self-destructs. As a result, you have completely side-tracked YOUR original thread, which was dealing with SOUND QUALITY. Now your talk is of aggression, militancy, concentration camps, a gun to your head, mobs. It is completely ludicrous. I'll say it one last time - we are simply a group of people who have adopted and enjoy computer and server-based audio. Just like vinyl lovers may feel their format is superior, so may computer audio enthusiasts. That does NOT mean we are out to get you or are trying to humiliate you. Seriously, you need to get a grip on yourself. Or perhaps try medicating yourself. Or perhaps just stop pulling our legs - because honestly your posts are becoming more and more unbelievable. |
When someone is aggressive against your Audio Format, and intends to replace all Audio Formats with Computer Audio, time to go fishing? You give grief, you get it right back. You give stress, you get it right back. Call it Phycological Reciprocity, Karma, or whatever you want to call it. I call it trying to push someone's button, or pull their string. You are left with no choice; but, to return the favor, unless you look weak. No aggression here about replacing Computer Audio with another Audio Format. Why this militant aggression of forcing Computer Audio to replace all other Audio Formats? I want "Live and Let Live" with all Audio Formats including Computer Audio. You want "Live, and Wage War to Eliminate All Other Audio Formats"! You are turning it into some kind of a Crusade or something. Yes, we all know what happened to all non- believers during the last Crusade- it was very stressful! Not alot of time for fishing. So when someone starts talking about starting another Crusade, that is when "Fight or Flight Response" kicks in. It is sort of like being the Fish on the recieving end of that hook and rod. Just because you find it relaxing, doesn't mean the Fish feel relaxed as well. When you are being hunted your stress level has a tendency to go up a notch. You want me, the Consumer, to look weak and helpless having to rely on only one Audio Format- Computer Audio. This instead of having purchasing power to select amongst many Audio Formats. You want all Consumers to become like "Fish out of Water"? Why, what did we ever do to you? We aren't Fish, so stop trying to treat us as such! |
Petty, these are not threats or ultimatums. They are predictions. They may or may not come true. Nobody is putting a gun to your head other than you in your wild imagination - unless you're just messing with us. "Soon all new music will only be available as downloads". A threat? "If you don't believe that Computer Audio has arrived yet as a viable replacement for CD, or even Vinyl..." Aggressive? Huh? You can't be serious. The only one using aggressive, even over-the-top language around here is you. Many of us on this forum actually do think that our server systems give us better sound quality than CD. Many of us are somehow able to get them to work for us. But nobody has uttered a word of aggression towards anyone who doesn't share their opinions or beliefs. Nobody is "holding a gun to your head" and forcing you to comply with anything. Nobody is putting you in a North Korean concentration camp. These are merely beliefs - if you don't agree that CD's days are numbered then that is your prerogative. In the end it doesn't matter what you or I think - market forces will decide. If there is enough interest in CDs they will remain a viable alternative - if there isn't they won't. Simple as that. No guns, mobs or concentration camps necessary! |
Poor Pettyofficer, Change is the only guarantee. Nothing stands still. Doomed is the thing that does. I can feel your pain. Market forces are cornering you. I'm sure you'll be able to find your other formats in the future. You could even burn (I mean record!) your own CDs. But I and others have given you all the information you need to escape being like the doomed dinosaurs looking up at that meteor coming at them. Just like them, you will see the dust will settle & leave smaller more efficient critters to go further than any giant lizard ever dreamed of. You are just experiencing the convergence of medias & their technologies. It is, & will be amazing in everyway. You must have been unlucky so far. But I have heard the finest quality from some of these devices with excellent interaction, control & freedom. You obviously have not. That is a shame. But not surprising. Everything is moving very fast, which means you have to too, or be left behind with all your vinyl & magnets. We are even seeing the end of the USA & europe as dominant global powers... Who would have thought that would happen quite so fast? Will you still be listening to vinyl when the Yen is the new global currency & oil a fuel of the past? |
ULTIMATUM? FORCE? IMPENDING DOOM? SLAVERY? AGGRESSIVE SHOVING? I thought we were just talking about listening to a few tunes. I enjoyed mine last night, all redbook stuff downloaded to my PC. Beats my old CD player... you remember when CD's were DOOMED? Did you try my "going fishin" suggestion? Why all this stress? |
What part of, "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads" do you not understand? What part of, "If you don't believe that Computer Audio has arrived yet as a viable replacement for CD, or even Vinyl..." do you not understand? These are overt aggressive statements threatening Impending Doom for all other Audio Formats. These words are being used to persuade, and convince. Can you read the "Proof" between the lines of these Statements? Can you read the intent? What more proof do you need from an Ultimatum? What does the word "Ultimatum" mean to you- an absence of proof? Even by definition, an Ultimatum is pretty definitive. It pretty much means "absence of any doubt", yet you still have your doubts? These are threats, they are meant to cajoule- they are meant to intimidate. Certainly intimidate those who demand to use other Audio Formats. In case you haven't noticed, I don't give into intimidation very well. I also demand choices. One choice is not a Free Market- more like Slavery! Force us into one Audio Format with "Impending Doom" statements like these- is overt aggressive Slavery. Freedom is giving Consumers the power of choice, not using Impending Doom Intimidation to eliminate choice. There is a big difference even if you can't see it. One means that you are under threat if you don't comply with your Audio Format Purchases- got it? Yeah, this makes my skin crawl alright! Like having a gun held to your head. You are being hyper aggressive shoving Computer Audio down everyone's throat, some are bound to be a little aggressive right back. You are surprised? |
Petty, it is proof that I asked for - proof that we are trying to wipe out all other formats. This is what you are accusing us of and you have presented no proof at all, just more of your tired diatribe. Accusing me of double talk? Really?? I call that the pot calling the kettle black. "Four things that I believe are worth fighting for: CD, Vinyl, Computer Audio, and the free use of "ALL" of these Formats. " This is exactly what we have - free use of all these formats. I think your arguments are running out of steam - at least until you show the proof that should be forthcoming with all of your accusations. |
Pettyofficer, So you do not have a server? You have a CD player that can only play red-book and possibly SACD at best. Is that correct? Sometimes I feel we speak different languages. Am I correct in thinking that you would not even consider something like the Weiss MAN202? I thought this would be your dream? No computer, just all the convienience of one with a damn good DAC with volume control all activated via an iPad/iPhone etc. You can play CDs as well as all the other files. Surely this has your name on it? Or is that killing off everything & not viable yet? |
Chadeffect- I already have a Server without the necessity of having it all built in. It is called "CD"! It definitely "BYPASSES" all Computer Issues. Don't make me list those issues again, your wearing me out. You already know them well. "If you don't believe that Computer Audio has arrived yet as a viable replacement for CD, or even Vinyl...." Another Ultimatum? "Petty, neither I, nor anyone else is denying you anything and I am not quite sure why you continually state this. Show me the proof that anyone who has adopted Computer Audio is trying to deny you anything" Where I come from this is called Double Talk. Four things that I believe are worth fighting for: CD, Vinyl, Computer Audio, and the free use of "ALL" of these Formats. Nothing is a viable replacement for anything, especially with thin Music Selection of High Rez. Downloads. Even swap for CD resolution Downloads are "Even Swap/Second Best"! I love a winner, and absolutely will not tolerate a loser (Second Best). I am not alone! There are many more who will not accept "Viable Replacement", until issues with Computer Audio are worked out- especially lack of High Rez. Downloads. Show us the money first, otherwise you are just wasting our time. You are not serious, and Computer Audio should not be taken seriously- until this changes! No free rides in this Audio Market. It is all up to you to take the initiative, don't and Computer Audio can't help but go down in flames- same as SACD/DVD-Audio. Are you going to let SACD/DVD-Audio happen again with Computer Audio? Try doing something different than those other two Formats, but you will fight tooth and nail against this! The problem is that Computer Audio never stood a chance against the likes of you, locked in concrete against any criticism for improvement. You are strangling it to death, and it is a shame. |
People, listen. You could dismiss the smooth stylings and gnostic, free-form verse poetry of brother Petty as the incoherent ramblings of a troubled and delusional soul. But before you do -- before you find yourself in the not-too-distant future writhing in consuming agony, together with your family and everyone you care about, in the Korean concentration camps erected by our malignant corporate and/or machine overlords -- just remember. You were warned. Oh, and one more thing, keep your hands off of his pants. |
Petty, neither I nor anyone else is denying you anything and I'm not quite sure why you continually state this. Show me the proof that anyone who has adopted computer audio is trying to deny you anything. These are market forces, pure and simple. You seem to feel we're all out to get you but I promise we're not trying to harm you or your family. "Support you seizing the Audio Market, and turning it into a North Korean Concentration Camp?" LOL! Come to think of it not much is funny about a concentration camp, but I assume your intent here was humor. |
No...no...no...not more challenging, just ten times more tasking- especially when compared to simple plug-n-play CD. I am happy with what I am hearing too! Just confused as to why I should accept ten times more Tasking for replacement of CD. Paying for it on top of that is a crime against humanity! This sounds like something they would make you do in North Korea, or something. Don't tow the Party Line on Computer Audio: you get it, your wife gets it, your children, your parents...etc. Happy for you, happy to share Audio Market with you. Support you seizing the Audio Market, and turning it into a North Korean Concentration Camp? You go ahead and try to touch my Relatives, or my CDs! Working longer, and harder for your Music is your choice. Don't deny someone the opportunity to work shorter, and smarter with way less tasking for their Music! Three Hour High Rez. Download indeed- this must be a joke! You are "NOT" welcome very much. |
Hmmmmm...that's strange...most of us don't find it THAT difficult to back up our music collections for safety's sake. It's not THAT difficult! And most of us can somehow do the research and implement a computer audio system that at least equals if not exceeds competitively priced CDPs But...after all this I guess you're right Pettyofficer, computer audio is just too challenging FOR YOU. Nobody is stopping you from NOT adopting it and using your CDP. We just want you to stop complaining about YOUR problems as if they're OURS - we've actually figured it all out - and we'd be happy to share it with you if you would just listen for once. No need for you to worry about those of us who have had success with what you find so confusing. By and large we're quite happy with what we're hearing, thank you very much! |
Just in case the Big One drops? You mean "SKYNET", the same loving source for your Computer Audio? I thought that was just a story! If you are driving a V.W. Bug with 20 Wheels on it, with a Transmission that has 200 redundant gears, please drop a big one on that Committee designed monstrosity! Just want to play some Music here, not go to the Moon Mr. Chairman of the Rocket Science Committee. Computer Audio is going to end up on the same Scrap Heap as the Space Shuttle. The Scrap Heap of obsolete, too many redundant moving parts, costs way more than you will ever get out of it, Boondoggle. Computer Audio, a Swiss Army Knife with a Sink- and Sauna attached to it??? What the hell is this for a simple Audio Format? Heaven forbid if you ever redesigned a Saxaphone- or any other Musical Instrument! It would require Wasapi, and Kernel Streaming as well- and replace all other Saxaphones. Heaven help us! Don't you dare touch our Musical Instruments next with your Rocket Science Committee Computer Audio Design mentality! You are starting to scare the hell out me, and making that Bunker look a little better! You are more dangerous than the Big One. Is this Nerd Gothic Computer obsession, or what? Do you also want to create a hundred redundant steps for me to put on my pants as well? Get yer greedy paws off of my Pants- same for my CDs! Plug and Play CD doesn't require any "Computer Magic", therefore it wont waste your time with silly gimmicks- just Music. You also wont be wasting your time having to design your Music Storage (Software, Metadata, Music File Format...etc) from scratch. You already have that in the palm of your hand- it is called a Shortcut around all of the Computer Garbage. You know it as a CD. Spend more time listening to Music, that is it's purpose after all- not trying to decypher the "Matrix". |
No sense making something obsolete that doesn't require- Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, ASIO, That is not subject to Computer Virus, That is not subject to fragmentation, That is not subject to Hard Drive Crash, That is not subject to Back-up Hard Drive Crash, That is not subject to powerful magnets wiping out memory, That doesn't put your entire vulnerable Music Collection in one place (Eggs in one basket), That is not subject to Hard Drive Errors...etc... etc...etc. An extra 5th Wheel? Try an extra 20 Wheel conglomeration! Compared to that, something that gets by on four Wheels (CD) is hardly obsolete. Compared to CD, Computer Audio looks like an Audio Format built by Committee. It requires massive amounts of redundant steps easily bypassed with CD. You also don't have to search for Meta Data either. Computer Audio is an Audio Format that is done the "HARD WAY"! Hardly conductive to relaxation with Music. I mean waiting three hours to Download High Rez. Music Files....pop a Disk in a machine and you are done! No Software, no headaches...just "MUSIC"! If Music is not the point, then what is? |
Petty, therein lies one of the big advantages of computer audio - it can be a direct replacement for CDs as well as a high resolution medium. No need to replace your CD collection if computer audio does take hold - just rip your CDs to your hard drive while simultaneously enjoying the option of higher-than-CD resolution. You can have your cake and eat it too. Again, nobody is "pulling the plug" on any other format. No matter what you or I say, the only way that happens is through market forces. I don't want any format to be wiped out any more than you do - but if computer audio renders CD redundant in the eyes of consumers it will become obsolete. |
Agree with you 100% Mapman. Until this occurs (As you have described in your response) there is no sense in even talking about doing away with other Audio Formats. Sometimes New Formats take 5-10 years for greater than 70% Market penetration. The Tool for this has to be ever increasing Music Selection. People have to feel that they are not going to lose their favorite Music transitioning to a New Format, as other competing Formats go by the way side. I still don't see why we shouldn't take advantage of having more than one Audio Format. I know that some believe in multiple Formats; but, some are just militant about Computer Audio taking over the entire Audio Market yesterday. They don't seem to care about giving people enough time to transition. Increase High Rez. Music Selection, so people don't lose their favorite Music when rug is pulled from under old Audio Format. I look at High Rez. Download Music Selection, and I don't see a plan for careful transition to protect everyone's Music. Selection is slowly increasing, this is changing. Use this Barometer as a measuring stick to determine if pulling older Audio Format is premature- adjust accordingly. Impatience is absolutely "NOT" convenient. Getting rid of all other Audio Formats yesterday, in favor of Computer Audio, is just a Train Wreck- not a transition. No sense being militant about it. New Format (High Rez. Download) should be of higher Sound Quality than old Format (CD). Even swap of CD for same Rez. Computer Audio is just that- an even swap, or very close. It is not a large step up in transition as High Rez. Downloads would be. This has to be the Golden true measure of transition to a higher Sounding Format. What does second place Computer Audio get you? The American Public love a winner, and will not tolerate a loser- it is that simple! |
Petty, I actually understand your apprehension when it comes to big corporations and their motives, which are no mystery by the way, and there may be some validity to your fears about what lies in store ahead in terms of recording quality, but there is really nothing new there. High quality recordings and high end audio are luxury items. Look at the glass as half full maybe. There are still a lot of very good recordings available for reasonable cost despite the fact that 99.9% of the world probably doesn't care. NEtwork bandwidth is the bottleneck still for most home computer audio technology. That has always been the prime motivation for "acceptable" lossy formats like mp3, etc. However technology will progress and even that bottleneck will fall eventually and provide a more suitable for high res audio, video, and whatever. TEchnology is still the bottleneck more so than any evil corporate aspirations. You have to have the intrastructure to support hi res digital and that comes with a cost. It will get better over time. Until that happens, CDs and other hard storage formats will not go away. PEoples wants and needs will still drive markets. Audiophiles will always have to pay some degree of a premium somewhere in order to satisfy their luxurious wants and needs. |
