Should people who can't solder, build or test their speakers be considered audiophiles?
So, if you bought that Porsche but can only drive it and not fix it do you really understand and appreciate what it is? I say no. The guy who can get in there and make it better, faster or prettier with his own hands has a superior ability to understand the final result and can appreciate what he has from a knowledge base and not just a look at what I bought base. I mean sure you can appreciate that car when you drive it but if all you do is take it back to the dealership for maintenance and repairs you just like the shape with no real understanding of what makes it the mechanical marvel it is. I find that is true with the audio world too. There are those who spend a ton of money on things and then spend a lot of time seeking peer approval and assurance their purchase was the right one and that people are suitably impressed. Of course those who are most impressed are those who also do not design, build, test or experiment.
I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.
A true audiophile can define his goal and with hands on ability achieve what a mere buyer of shiny parts never will. So out comes the Diana Krall music and the buyer says see how good my system is? The audiophile says I have taken a great voice and played it through a system where all was matched and tweaked or even purposely built and sits right down next to Diana as she sings. The buyer wants prestigious signature sound and the audiophile will work to achieve an end result that is faithful true to life audio as though you were in the room with Diana as she sings. The true audiophile wants true to life and not tonally pure according to someones artificial standard.
So are you a buyer or an audiophile and what do you think should make a person an audiophile?
"
Well, okay. But please make certain that all required official
audiophile forms and permits have been submitted and been approved, your
audiophile dues have been fully paid, you're clad in all official
audiophile mandated safety gear and that you're strictly following
official audiophile crimping procedures. Additionally, you must
utilize the most recent version of the official audiophile crimp
connectors and recite the audiophile pledge with extreme conviction and
righteous indignation, prior to proceeding any further with your
crimping endeavors. "
Well as the codifier of the only relevant set of working standards for Audiophiles I think I can say I am aware of what is required. I am afraid you have some work to do.
That’s cool. I have no need, use or desire for any audiophile credentials, standards, authorizations, approvals, exclusions or other restrictions and limitations. I’m just an independent music and HT lover and A/V gear enthusiast who prefers enjoying his hobbies freely, along with the inclusive interaction with all like minded individuals, including yourself, and without exclusions, pretensions and limitations.
Initially I came here because I was curious after reading comments on other forums. Now I come here because it is a strange mix of people who do know things and strange diatribes on weird high dollar stuff that does nothing but drain bank accounts. It is the oddest mix of all the forums I have been to and quite fascinating.
" Now I come here because it is a strange mix of people who do know things and strange diatribes on weird high dollar stuff that does nothing but drain bank accounts. It is the oddest mix of all the forums I have been to and quite fascinating."
So, you are trying to save us from ourselves? You do know how old this argument is?
"
So, you are trying to save us from ourselves? You do know how old this argument is?
" Why yes, I do know how old it is. The topic lives because the source material keeps piling up until it draws attention once again. As has been stated before, but apparently not read by many who stop in, this is for my entertainment. Thanks for your contribution by the way.
mahlman:"
As has been stated before, but apparently not read by many who stop in, this is for my entertainment. Thanks for your contribution by the way."
Hello mahlman,
I stated something similar in my last post: "
I’m just an independent music and HT lover and A/V gear enthusiast who prefers enjoying his hobbies freely, along with the inclusive interaction with all like minded individuals, including yourself, and without exclusions, pretensions and limitations." I believe most members here on Audiogon generally agree with my statement about
enjoying this hobby freely, along with the inclusive interaction with all like minded individuals, including yourself, and without exclusions, pretensions and limitations. My thoughts were that the topic of this thread you created was implicitly exclusive, snobbish and pretentious since it contained the inane exclusion and limitation of non-solderers from being considered audiophiles. My main point is that I believe the qualities of elitism, exclusion, snobbishness and pretentiousness are generally not embraced by the majority of Audiogon members. including myself.
10 pages .... and the intended humor and sarcasm of the posted topic .... is still lost (on some). It has been an interesting psychology experiment @mahlhan.
" mahlman, This may seem like an obscure question, but do you happen to wear a wristwatch, and maybe own a couple? " Last time I wore a watch was before 1980. Do I owe you anything for psychological analysis?
" 10 pages .... and the intended humor and sarcasm of the posted topic .... is still lost (on some). It has been an interesting psychology experiment @mahlhan. "
@roberttdid In grade school, back in the days when real teachers with moral values taught you, we had a little lesson given on following instructions. It was also a test of your ability to understand what you read. The teacher handed out copies and told us to read it. The first paragraph told you to stop reading and wait. The vast majority continued to read and when finished the teacher got to point out how many of us failed a simple thing like reading comprehension and following instructions. Human nature does not change as far as I can see, just the sophistication of our toys is subject to great change.
My favorite psychology experiment mahlman is double doors. I can't count the number of times I have walked past a line of people all queued up behind the person in front of them to enter or exit through a single door, only to walk by all of them and open the other door and walk through. The looks are always priceless.
@roberttdid Which door do you think the following quotes author would go through?
" My thoughts were that the topic of this thread you created was implicitly exclusive, snobbish and pretentious since it contained the inane exclusion and limitation of non-solderers from being considered audiophiles. "
The more I think about this the more I think it smacks of elitism. Just way to many look down your nose words in play here.
malhman, I asked about a wristwatch because I know many that like them VERY. much, but can't service their own at all. Btw, I have certainly been enjoying this thread and the many responses, kudos. roberttdid, if during your door experiment, the door you went through was an EXIT, I'm sure you missed the applause of all of those remaining inside. 😊
Oh ISO, look at you again, can't help the personal attacks, but it's okay, if you didn't get the intentional irony and sarcasm of the ops post, I could see how you may be a bit sensitive at this point.
May I suggest working harder on your own persona, and worrying less about mine?
Robert, I tried to be clear that I DO understand the OP's intentions regarding this thread. I also enjoy it and all of the responses including your's. We are occupying the same playground and game. Fair play is always preferred, although not required in admittance. We can self-referee.
" malhman, I asked about a wristwatch because I know many that like them VERY. much, but can’t service their own at all " I like precision things and in real life I am a 3D CAD designer and a CNC Machinist. I do not do well on hands on mechanical things. I would not be an Autiophile by current standards for being a "phile" but I do drive two different vans.
Jerry, You may not understand. Mine has a cute cartoon mouse on it. But the best part, and get this ...... his arms go around and ACTUALLY point to the numbers that tell the time! Honest Injun!!! You may not know this, but some men will pick a watch that they think will impress the ladies. Let me tell ya'... this one SURE does, and how!!!!
Wow, the dude is tooting his horn a bit much because he can apparently solder, build a stoopid lil box and throw some drivers in it.
Dude, i run a large test lab where we primarily build/test aerospace components. We do stuff everyday that can be way more "intense" than throwing a couple of drivers and a crossover in a box. On the other hand, my wife is a music teacher who wouldn't even know what a soldering iron is. But, she's way more of an audiophile than i am, i can guarantee it.
doode i am in awe of where you work and that you do non stoopid things and like wow man it is so cool you are here and like talking to us doode and just like you know i bet you are intense in person and running a test lab and all is so cool and i am humbled that you deigned to comment here and stuff and like wow man this is so totally awesome and to think stuff in the air is flying around because of testing validation is like waay cool and i bet the mars things are in there too huh and man this is exciting to know that tested/validated components are being used as we speak.
@roberttdid Don't know what he said as the email notification cut him off after flat pack but it must have been amusing since the moderator axed his reply. It's a shame the email notifications don't have the complete comment text as I bet this one was a hoot. So much anger, so much hostility, so much angst. He was on a roll for sure from the couple of sentences that did make it to my inbox. And just when I thought it was winding down too!
I consider my self an audiophile, but first and foremost I am a car guy, I've owned BMW's Porsche's Ferrari, and the list goes on, if I am talking to anyone in any of those circles and they look down on the guy that is excited about his new Yugo, I will immediately think of him as a dick, and I will be excited to know why the Yugo excites the owner, share with me your passion, I dont care what it is, boats, cars, audio, legos, I dont care.
So no, to be an audiophile you simply need to be an enthusiast of audio, even if you cant afford it, I will share mine with you and give you my chair.
Well said, brianjacobs. Looking back on this long thread, I'm thinking the underlying theme could be how we each choose during our lifetimes, on a daily basis, whether to be, or not to be, a dick.
"
So no, to be an audiophile you simply need to be an enthusiast of audio,
even if you cant afford it, I will share mine with you and give you my
chair.
" Yup I agree and being an audiophile precludes being pretentious and instead it is the end result. Some of the systems I hear are not very good but it is all these people can afford and we can share love of music. Personally I would rather visit with these than the ones who have kept price tags on things.
Funny thing about all this high dollar stuff with people I personally know. They invite me over and I go. I invite them over and they stay away because I guess my stuff is part home built el cheapo in their eyes. Why would they waste their time listening to inferior junk I guess is their opinion and have such towering egos they never even try to find out what might be at my end. You invite me over I will go at least once. You start telling (bragging to) me how much things cost I won't be back.
briansjacobs is referring to snobbery, in which I fully agree with his perspective. I was (am) a watchmaker, hence I had answered to avsherry above. I can appreciate all levels that enthusiasts own. Btw, having a wristwatch isn't really about telling time 🙄 Brian's offer to "share mine with you" is much appreciated, although it best be an Eames or that not a chair acceptable for my derriere. 🙄
Sound Table is the ugly winner for me. Of course I am a certified Solder Aficionado and Audiophile so I might not be qualified to judge here. Which do you choose?
They are unsurpassable optimist considering conditions which even professional speaker designer need to satisfy in order to poduce ''decent speakers''. Talent and musicality are also needed otherwise ''tuning'' has no sense. There are unknown many speaker producers but only few are really good.
I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.
Yes correct, Beforea newbie buys any speaker, 1st he must be aware of sensitivty issues, type amp employed, and who will remake the xovers, which new caps will he employ. A new speaker will not have top quality components. All these upgrades and modificatiosn requires some working knowledge of xover components.
"
Apparently I stumbled upon The Onion...
" You stumbled upon rejection of hoity toity holier than thou audiophiles who then delivered in spades the attitude that caused me to write this post to begin with. The onion is second best when compared to price tag audiophiles. "
No one should be an audiophile -audiophiles are mostly about bad music brand names and amounts spent not performance.
" There are two types of audiophiles. One that wants to sadly demonstrate name/price tags and another group that wants you to hear things. Type A tends to gather where they can get self validation for what they bought into and Type B works on improving what he hears.
Sorry...but this is one of the silliest threads i have read in 18 yrs. on the Gon! I own a Porsche and i know everything there is to know about my vehicle but i don’t own thousands of dollars worth of high tech equipment needed to “work on it” because i do not own a dealership:-) I also LOVE music and it has been my forty year career but i never worried if i could fix or discern every nuance about my equipment because that is what you get a warranty for!! By the way...I have never considered myself an “Audiophile” because who the Hell cares?! I LOVE music with a nice glass of wine in a well set-up room with synergistic gear and that’s plenty good enough for me...SNOB?
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