Russian Tube Preamp, No Return, Here I go again

First thing I’d do is remove the wood case. It impedes cooling. Tubes will last longer without it. Keep it for resale value.

@lewm +1 on hifishark

@elliottbnewcombjr 

I bought two Luxman CL-35III. One for myself with a pair of Luxman MB-3045 amps, and one for a friend. One of them came complete with the Luxman SUTs that insert in the back. I tracked down a pair of Sansui a-603 SUT for the other.

It is a very good sounding unit, but not as good as the new Luxman CL-38uC.

Plenty are posted for sale. If you are in the USA you should look for one with US voltage, not the 100 volt Japanese model, which are more plentiful.

Best of luck in your search,

Jim Perry

lewm,

Thanks for the tip about frequency of availability.

I like that Rosewood Case, a big part of it’s appeal. If I buy it, and truly like the sound of it's phono, I may use it in my main system with lots of similar colored wood and the Rosewood Speakers. The JVC decks like mine were stained with a red coloration, highly grained, but not Rosewood veneer, but they appear so at first glance.

It's interesting to try and show how I think, and see how others think and approach things, funny 'here I go again' being the point of this discussion in the first place. 

I look every morning for tube preamps, 'newly listed', it's fun for me, however, it's becoming expensive.

He could start another thread with hundreds of daily ebay links, thinking that other people can’t make their own search for audio gear (or simply add what they need in favorite search or wantlist to get notifications when it’s available). 

I can lighten up on my Valium.
I don't think you have to worry a bit, if you miss out on this particular unit. There have been more than a dozen of them placed on sale, mostly on eBay, since March 10.  Check "Hi-Fi Shark".

lewm,

I'm holding out

"Elliot,
Thanks for the interest in my preamp. It really is a Nice tube preamp. I love the vintage (pre-Alpine) Luxman equipment and have so for the past 40+ years.

To be honest, I have just over $1600 in it. Between eBay and PayPal the fees they charge add up to about 13% which be around $200.
So the cheapest I could sell it for is $1800."

I am having palpitations!

I lost my mind, I just made an offer for the Luxman, let's see what happens.

this guy has the nerve to call this near mint, A+, text worn off faceplate, case is nasty, connectors corroded. and the price???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-C11-Tube-PreAmplifier-Original-C20-C22-era-AUDIOPHILE-SERVICED/274...

Why didn’t they mount the horizontal row of tubes above the connectors?

the luxman has the tubes high with better ventilation, I like it more every day!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Luxman-CL35-MKIII-Tube-Preamp/303871182981

With no circuit upgrades, the 7C is not even “good” by today’s standards. I say this from experience, having owned and used two of them in my audio life. Lovely to look at however.

Carver is or was an interesting and very smart guy. His products are full of gimmicks. Some work to enhance SQ. Some are just sand in your eye.

Bill,

Nice to see you here. I am going tubes, I only posted the Carver for others, and my comment was about how it would match my other Carvers, the SS Cube Amp, and the SS AM/FM Tuner. All unreadable grey, absolutely horrible if not mounted standing eye high. Bright as he is, ... especially for the aging baby boomers, whose eyes diminish with their ears.

Both the Russian Preamp and the Luxman Preamp are shallow, only 10-5/8 or 10-7/8 + cables behind, knobs in front. Both work on top of my Bookcase 13-3/4" depth + 1/1/2" clear behind to jamb the plug end of a wire down behind. I could fit either inside the 11-1/2" case with right angle cables, Many full depth units won’t fit on top, certainly not within the case. Thar’s why I am not using my Fisher 500C.

Carver is usually compact (hard to stack), I was curious as to the size of the Carver, perhaps use the 3 pieces for my shop/garage (Goodbye Tandberg TR80).

I found the manual which surprisingly says nothing about size, but a heck of a lot of other interesting stuff I will read sometime. He’s a fascinating dude.

file:///C:/Users/ellio/Downloads/Carver-C-1-Owners-Manual.pdf

I just found a listing that said: 19" wide; 10" deep; 3-1/2" high.

I could hook you up with a nice black face C11 Carver for a bit less than that. Almost the same unit but you can actually read the face plate. That light grey with black lettering is tough on the eyes!
BillWojo

Marantz you say?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-Intl-Shipping-Vintage-Marantz-7-7c-Tube-Pre-Amplifier-with-TFK-12AX7s/...

I am not drawn to the Marantz like I am to the Luxman.

look at the price of this one, $399.or make offer

https://reverb.com/item/39398714-carver-c-1-sonic-holography-preamp-w-manual?utm_source=google&u...

If I wasn't waiting for my Russian Tube Preamp, I would go for the Luxman.

Elliott, You noticed I am sure that the Luxman asking price is nearly 4X what you paid for the Russian unit.  You could buy a Marantz 7C, perhaps the king of vintage tube preamplifiers, for $3000 to $6000, too. But you would be paying for the collectibility as much as for SQ.  I'm sure the Luxman is very nice.

Holy cow, I have a Carver C1 in my game room. Cannot believe the sale price. You need to make sure it has been serviced and the potentiometers have been cleaned if you jump on the Carver. The sonic holography is gimmicky at first, but after a while, your apt to stop using it. 

another awesome vintage preamp I might have bought if it was available.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Luxman-CL35-MKIII-Tube-Preamp/303871182981

I wonder if 'taking a chance' on the Russian Tonearm and Russian Preamp was part of their appeal. i.e. IF this Luxman and the Russian were both available at the same time: the Russian is all I need for my office: 1 Phono and Tape. The Luxman is fully loaded, awesome with unique features.

The Russian had the lower price/bargain appeal, and had the risk factor, a positive rather than a negative. 

????

This Carver ain't tubes, but it would have looked nice with my Carver AM/FM Tuner and Carver Cube Amp

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-CARVER-C-1-Sonic-Holography-Preamplifier-w-BOX-Paperwork-NEAR-MINT-...

MM and MC inputs, lots to like

SA5.1 is v nice sounding.

I might have made an offer for this if it was around when I chose the Russian one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Counterpoint-SA3-1-Tube-Analog-Audiophile-Preamp-Phono/154358866931?hash=it...

Shipping Progress

• EE015444252RU

Date and time, Status of Item, Location
Feb 17, 2021 6:40 PMPosted249833
Feb 21, 2021 1:26 PMArrived at export officeMoskva
Feb 21, 2021 2:48 PMPresented to export customs and security130980
Feb 21, 2021 2:49 PM Released from export customs and security130980
Mar 1, 2021 12:52 AM Departed from export office

teo-audio

I am sorry for my initial response, I forget everyone doesn't know my sense of humor, and also forget that English is not many member's primary language.

I just went thru the discussion and saw the 'cheap' was started by chackster, and he meant it.

teo-audio

Perhaps I should have added a smiley face.

I’m an Interior Designer, specializing in Corporate Office Space. After a client meeting, I came back to the office, told Betty the head of the Furniture and Decorating department: "The client want’s cheaper furniture". I can still see Betty’s eyelids flapping as she replied: "We don’t offer cheap furniture, I will find some ’less costly’ choices.

I love a bargain, sometimes the luck of a bargain is a big part of truly enjoying something each time I use it!

I make my own speaker cables to save money to be sure, but primarily because I would feel foolish if I didn’t, and I would deprive myself the accomplishment.

I paid a pro to replace the cones in my 15" woofer's, the first time. Next time, I risked doing it myself. Bingo, another accomplishment, and when my old Velodyne sub's surround rotted, I knew I could do with confidence.

teo-audio

Who gave you the right to call me cheap?

Tubes do not inherently "hum", unless a particular tube has a defect that causes hum.  Circuits in which we place tubes can be prone to hum if not designed properly, and most commonly hum is due to grounding problems. So use whatever is the recommended substitute for the 6N4P and stop worrying about nothing.  12AY7 is also known as 6072.  Both types are thought to be excellent sounding.  Most likely the Russkies copied the 12AY7 (a classic) and re-named it the 6N4P.  Furthermore, you should have a few thousand hours of use ahead of you before you even need to think about replacing tubes.

Problem is, we’re just as cheap as you are.

therefore, even if it is a good deal at $15-20 each, timely delivered, we still see it on eBay for $5 but in Russia... and grind out teeth that we can’t get it for that.... and we just sit there, lost in the fuzzy grey colored morass of our own cheapassness vs the need for the tube.

not to worry, someone will get us off the itchy undefined squirmy stewing pot of our own design...  

Oh! none available.,... time to back to eBay and just stare, wondering why 30+ day chancy delivery can't somehow transform into $1.98 overnight delivery

the Russian 6N4P tube is not available here. they say no hum.

I asked seller for price of spare, but unfortunately he had already shipped the preamp, and he says EMS minimum cost is $40. if I buy just the tube.

Knowing that, IMO, they should include a spare.

They say substitute is 12AY7, while checking I see a lot of 'they hum' comments.

Some suggested use 12AV7, lower gain, less/no hum.

maybe I should buy half a dozen, sell some on eBay to offset the high shipping cost. I wonder how many people want 6n4p's?

Thoughts, ideas______?

lewm

thanks for the advice, details and price. I was just letting you know, the looks of that domestic one would have worked (in the shelves with my black Chase unit, not on top like the Russian will be).

In the 5th photo is shows a phono selector

I felt, but didn’t know that it was too high a price.

I bought a rare LP set from someone in St Petersburg, Russia. It took about a month but it arrived, condition as described. 

Yesterday vintage NOS Japanese NEC 6bq5 (EL84) power tubes replaced Russian power tubes in this Luxman integrated amp. We were shocked by the difference! Luxman stock tubes are branded Luxman, but in fact it’s modern Russian tubes.

Japanese tubes from NEC (made in the 70’s for hi-fi audio) are much quieter, the resolution is much higher, I never tried them before (tubes were sealed in the boxes), it was a blind deal for me long time ago, I don’t even have an amp with EL84 anymore, but a friend purchased Luxman from me few years ago.

After an evening of listening we are all (4 of us) came to conclusion that an old Japanese NEC is killing New Russian tube. So the NEC green series is amazing power tube. 

My advice is to look for a NOS tubes instead of Russian or Chinese tubes. 

In my opinion, that AI Modulus is a bit overpriced, as it does not include a built-in phono stage.  As such, it would not even fulfill your needs. The one worth having would be the 3A version with a phono stage designed by John Curl (if memory serves).  That one on eBay is worth a few hundred bucks, tops.  Again, in my opinion.

In my best russian accent "Don't Vorry, we make guud for you!

lewm

this one would have been a good domestic option if it was listed when I was looking

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audible-Illusions-Modulus-Stereo-Tube-Preamplifier-classic-linestage-in-box...

diffin

I expect it to love Jazz, it certainly will when I finish breaking it.

gofishme2

My Cayin A88T integrated amp is made in China, first rate, sounds terrific. Politically I'm a 'One World' type.

thanks for the link, seems like he/they know what they are doing.

SP10 may sound good, but I would order his SP14 K1 with remote, assembled, probably go for the pricey mundorf caps.

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm

It has separate left/right gain, a nice feature when using mono blocks.

Does it play any non-Russian composers?

I'm 77, so if this doesn't work out for you; for $500.00 plus $30.00 shipping you can purchasing from the USA (tubes4hifi.com) the SP10 Preamp with remote control.  It's made in China; another adversary or enemy depending on your personal view. I have one and it sounds fantastic. It is very well made.  I've had more costly one that doesn't sound any better. You might wonder why people pay so much for brand name preamps. PEACE.

fuzztone; desktopguy

thank you both for your humor.

Just yesterday I thought, hey, where are those L-Pads I ordered. I returned the Pots I ordered by mistake.

Checked, it would have been a long time, I left them in the cart, never ordered them.

Thanks to the O.P. for an entertaining thread--and a great attitude about audio in general.

Example: "I decided I would try to have Oriental Patience from then on."

Just hope you get your blues before your sunset.
OR you forget where the office is.

chackster

chakster (8 characters please ) 

cheap PREAMP

ok

had this been listed at the time, what a tough choice

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MARCONI-MONO-BLOCKS-TUBE-AMPLIFIERS-STEREO-TUNER-PRE-AMP-4410/38381...

It has my beloved remote balance feature, nice feature for mono amps as well as individual tweaks of errant mixes.

chackster

cheap amp from Russia made with some Chinese parts by unknown guy.

cheap PREAMP

11 month by sea mail from Japan is nonsense, seamail is 2-3 month estimate and not affecting by covid at all.

Not ....the problem occurred because the turntable had returned back to the depot in Japan and I did not know anything for a long time.

EMS from Russia to USA during covid is normally 30 days, can be a bit faster or slower.

11 month by sea mail from Japan is nonsense, seamail is 2-3 month estimate and not affecting by covid at all. Some people always have problems with everything, it’s a bad luck. 

Such a weird forum, here is almost nothing about amazing tube amps from Japan made by skilled technicians, but people discuss unknown cheap amp from Russia made with some Chinese parts by unknown guy.

@ elliottbnewcombjr

everything will come with patience and waiting time.
With the covid problem everything has slowed down.
I waited 11 months by sea for a turntable to arrive from Japan (March 2020 / February 2021) between returning it back to seller for problems I don’t know and other time wasters, but then it finally arrived.
Patience and more patience.

teo_audio

thanks for your advice, I often take stuff apart, just to see what sense of quality is apparent, I certainly will this time.

It shipped EMS this am, let's see how long it takes. Hopefully USPS will not hold it so long at the airport as they did with my Russian tonearm.

mahgister

I thought they both said a variation of the same thing.

two small potential issues:

Watch out for the gluing of the red board supports, watch for it breaking free. They appear to be glued to the bottom plate, which will flex. They may also be screwed from the bottom, difficult to know without seeing it.

next potential danger, the red colored supports themselves.

They appear to be 3d printed. the orientation of the print process means that the supports might break easily when presented with lateral shear accelerations. It’s a basic problem with all fusing and filament type 3d printing. Adhesion of the new layer.. to the one below is a problem (In the printing process itself).

In essence, do NOT plug this unit in when it arrives, without taking the cover off and doing a very close inspection, before trying to power it up.

Not saying it will fail, but it is being shipped from ’faraway land’, and there will be plenty of chances for sharp impacts upon the shipping container, and thus some fairly decent sharp shear inducing acceleration(s).

Edit: downloading the image of the internals.. seems to possibly..er..indicate.. that maybe the builder made printed molds for the support and then poured the supports as ’cast’ items, which would probably make them considerably safer for use in high voltage tube based gear. I say this as it seems to be quite difficult to see any 'layers' in what looks a lot like a 3d print job for those supports. using a printed mold to make cast parts tends to make the print layers a hair more difficult to see as a surface detail thing.

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

― Aristophanes

If Aristophanes said it,i never correct Einstein after all.... Only gloss around him...

Humility must be my mentor now..... 😁😊

I will not try to correct E=Mc 2

Rest assured....