Roll of subs in soundstage?


When I replaced my older KEF Ref 107/2s with newer Ref 1s it seemed to improve the sound above 30 Hz a bit, but lost a sense of scale with large orchestrations. I recently reset the crossover to a pair of Velodyne HGS-15s from 40 Hz to 80 Hz, keeping the slope at 24 dB/octave. That change somehow seems to have expanded the soundstage and sense of scale with large orchestrations to match that of the 107/2s. I use an SMS-1 bass manager that provides acoustic room correction, and set the volume so I’m unaware of the subs except when a pipe organ pedal note is played. Whereas at the 40 Hz crossover setting the subs were rarely invoked, at 80 Hz they are often active. I don’t understand how that change in crossover can have such a profound effect of the perception of soundstage and scale.

I recently acquired a third HGS-15 and the SMS-1 can manage up to 3 subs, so I’m tempted to try a distributed bass setup. I have a pair of HGS-10s and a spare SMS-1, but that might be too complicated to set up.

db
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Mine are on springs. They rock. Not roll. 

Just like with the homophone you are so close, and yet so far away. Instead of changing subs try adding. Smooth fast articulate and deep bass is the key to believably reproducing the sense of scale of large spaces. If you heard Tchaikovsky 1812 last night on mine you would be agape. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
I am so glad to hear this. As it turns out, I have had a somewhat similar setup as yours (that being an SMS-1, controlling a GR research servo sub). Yes, it was the soundstage, but more as well. I realize that the sub is relieving the main amp and speakers of bass frequencies (I set the crossover to 80hz also), so allowing them to do better with the rest of the audio band. Soundstage was impacted in my case as well, but the musicality of lower frequencies is something that I have missed for far too long. Most folks think that it is about bass impact and extension, yet there is so much more than this to enjoy. It is so good that I have not even entertained the thought of ’better’.
I recently added three separate subwoofers into my listening room/ two channel system. The results exceed what I thought was possible. Sensational improvement not only in bass accuracy, tightness, sense of scale and realism, but low frequency modal issues were also greatly reduced. I now hear every bass string finger pluck and note....bass detail is incredible. I say all this because I agree with MC, it’s not as much about type of subwoofer, but rather the quantity and placement (at least 3 subs). Dr. Earl Geddes wrote his PhD Thesis on how/ why to use multiple subwoofers in a small room. (google Earl Geddes subwoofer) This is all about creating articulate deep bass, and at the same time, smoothing out room modes. 



I have all three subwoofer’s low pass set at 40hz, subwoofer volume moderate to low, that works best for my room/ setup. I hope this helps.