I know for a fact that REL uses a 30 point system. In other words the dealer pays 70% of the retail price. About six months ago there was a special discount from Sumiko that didn't require the dealer to pass it on to the consumer. I don't know how much that discount was for but based on my purchase price I would say it was about another 5-10 points. I got my info from the head salesman at Tweeter after getting into a fight with them and Sumiko (long story). I wound up buying my REL from Audiogon and received a lot more of the discount too.