Correct. I use vacuum clamping. What I meant was records that vacuum won't clamp are sent back. That number is very small. I do not have trouble with warped records because I use vacuum clamping. I would no live without it.
Relaxing Records for Better Sound - Using the AFI FLAT
I am re-posting my review under a new heading. While this is a device for taking out warps, I think its RELAX function, which improves sonics, is of greater import.
I have had a FLAT (that does have a nice ring to it) for several months and here are my impressions:
6. The Relax cycle will only take out the mildest of warps. Nearly all warps need the Standard cycle.
Since, I started to Relax FLAT all my best recordings. I highly recommend this device to take out warps, and also more importantly for me, to Relax favourite recordings for improved sonics. I would not be without it.
All the best,
I have had a FLAT (that does have a nice ring to it) for several months and here are my impressions:
1. I love the look and what appears to be very solid German design and construction.
2. Its operation is straight-forward and it has performed without any issues. The only thing I would note is that, as stated in the user manual, the cool-down cycle will not function properly in very warm ambient temperature. It basically cannot fully complete the cool-down cycle. After confirming this for myself (I am guessing the room temperature was around 27 or 28 C) I from then on ran it with my aircon on (24 C ambient temperature) for the cool-down cycle with no issues.
3. I have found its ability to flatten records excellent, five stars. This is described as the Standard function. I thought that I would have limited use for this feature, but since getting the FLAT I have been much more observant and found that quite a few new records that I have bought are dished. The Standard cycle has successfully flattened all my warped records.
4. It also has
another function, Relax, which is of much interest. This is a milder
version of the Standard cycle. Unfortunately, there is zero
description, apart from how to operate it, that I could find in the 19
page
user manual on this. I wanted to know what Relax is
meant to accomplish and whether it can be used on both played and
unplayed
records, and new and old. I have been told, but have not been able to
substantiate, that the
designer believes it to release something trapped in the vinyl
during pressing. I wanted to know whether there is any audible
difference
using this cycle so I managed to find two identical unplayed records in
my collection of Joni Mitchell’s “Blue”. They are US pressings but not
the original 1971 pressing but must have been a subsequent Warner
Bros/Reprise
“Super Saver Series” reissue which I picked up around 1987-88. I
checked that they had identical Matrix/Runnout identifiers. I cleaned
both with my KLAudio Mk2 cleaner and used the Relax cycle on one. A day
later I played the non Relaxed record with a friend with excellent
audio ears. The recording quality was not the best. We then put on the
Relaxed record. We were both amazed. There was a very significant
difference. The non Relaxed record was irritating and the Relaxed
record was transformed to listenable.
6. The Relax cycle will only take out the mildest of warps. Nearly all warps need the Standard cycle.
Since, I started to Relax FLAT all my best recordings. I highly recommend this device to take out warps, and also more importantly for me, to Relax favourite recordings for improved sonics. I would not be without it.
All the best,
14 responses Add your response
Many years ago I bought the first iteration of the Vinyl Flat and Groovy Pouch. I have had about half a dozen unplayable records (I'm not really interested in treating minor warps where the record still plays. Heresy to some, but there we are. Raul, I don't want to argue with you- but 'microwarps' that do not cause the stylus to leave the groove don't concern me. You may now condemn me!) since then and I think all but one were improved to the point of looking flat and becoming playable without any sonic degradation apparent to my ear. I know I'd like to have an Orb, but I cannot justify the price for the number of discs I wish to flatten—and there is a risk: the one that did not improve was flattened but damaged. Prior to treatment it threw off the stylus at an edge warp, and after treatment, whilst flat the grooves at the area of the edge warp were very, very noisy! So I'm at 5/6 success rate already, and $2kCDN isn't needed for an Orb. But I have just spent a lot less on ordering the new version of the Groovy Pouch with three heat settings (my old one is on or off) and a digital thermometer, plus the new soft Groovy Rings to try instead of the older hard kind. I have many boxes of inherited records that I have no interest in. Perhaps I should warp a couple and then try to flatten them with the old and the new Groovy Rings and Pouches. Science and all that. |
Dear @surge : You are rigth and not only the 80% but 100% because exist micro-warps. Analog is full of " errors " and the pressing of LPs are inside those " errors " analog chain. We all know that analog is far away to be perfect but it's what several of us like to listen.
Regards and enjoty the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@mijostyn You are not looking closely enough or you have vacuum hold or a clamp. 80% of the records I buy are warped. If I sent them back then 80% of the replacements would also be warped, and I would be spending all my free time shipping and getting mad at the retailers. The AFI is excellent. Much better than the Orb. A must have if you’re serious about vinyl. |
I do not have any warped records. If I get one that is warped I send it back. Records that are stored upright under moderate pressure out of any direct light or heat source do not warp. I would like someone to explain to me how heating up a record then cooling it off can make it sound better assuming the record was not warped to begin with. When you anneal metal you are making it softer and more malleable. You are taking the temper out. You can not temper PVC thus you can not anneal it. When you heat it up it expands and when you cool it down it contracts. You do not change it's durometer permanently. |
thermal de-stressing of 3d prints can yield a 20% (and more) increase in the strength of the printed item. It’s a form of annealing. due to how records are made, de-stressing and gaining an improved sound quality is most definitely a very real thing. think of how the vinyl is pressed. to be country simple about it, the vinyl is very poorly handled and is definitely poorly stressed, or notably over stressed, in bizarre ways, when they 'stamp' a record. the stressing of the vinyl particles or overall slurry, or thick lump, is extremely far from optimal or even. A huge thing, depending on the given individual record and how much effort one want to put into reaching pinnacles. It would be difficult to give a perceived increase in the vinyl qualities re the before and after of thermal destressing, but as a relatable point, wars are won or lost, formula one and tour de france races are won or lost, over less than 1% in differences. Meaning, if I, as a person looking to enjoy, to find some minimal rapture in the playing of a record..if I could gain a feeling we might quantify as being, oh, akin to 5% ’higher’, or more satisfied and I regularly spend lots life and or money in this area, to try and get there..then de-stressing the records makes a real kind of sense. If one has a large LP collection and listens regularly and spends decent sums on cartridges, turntables, amps, cables, room treatment, etc, then de-stressing the vinyl can be a notable thing, equivalent to a component upgrade, the kind heard across all records, not just one or two. |
Hi Norbert, Yes the Flat works with US 120v electricity. It comes with an AC to DC power supply similar to what you get when you buy a Laptop. The menu system is in English as well (you can choose English or German). Contact information is available on the website. http://www.afi-record-flattener.com/contact.htm Those are the phone numbers and email address he is using. His English I believe is not the best so you are probably better off emailing him. It took about 4 weeks to get the Flat from ordering it (payment up front). It shipped to me via DHL so it was the standard $33-36 fee that DHL charges on shipments. Pricing is retail pricing. I am still very happy with the AFI Flat, it is easy to use and very effective at what it does. |
jbny, Sorry that it has taken so long for me to reply. Can you PM me with the phone # to contact the manufacturer that you purchased from direct. I would also like to speak with Oliver in Germany. Yesterday, I had a pro come to my house and remount my Lyra Kleos cartridge and fine tune my Triplanar tonearm. Tri Mai and Atmasphere did an OK job of mounting and adjustment of the Kleos and Triplanar; but Brian Walsh of TTsetup .com brought the Triplanar / Kleos to a new level of performance that Tri and Ralph did not achieve.Last night was a late listening session for me and right now, I have the system warming up with a cd on repeat and the TT running just to warm up the bearing. Should be ready in about an hour. I am very happy with my current system. It plays Music in all the ways that I have chased for 30 years. Has all the features that I longed for and nothing that I do not need. Unless I win a lottery; This will be my final system. The AFI Flat is the only item that could possibly add to my enjoyment of Vinyl. Is the AFI compatible with US electricity? No added Customs fees? How long did it take to arrive? What was the total cost delivered to your door? You have had additional time to use your AFI Flat. Are you still happy with your purchase? Do you have any additional thoughts on its use and the results / benefits to SQ? Your experience and thoughts will be much appreciated. Thank You Norbert |
I am in the US and have an AFI Flat MK2 that I bought direct last month. I agree with bluewolf assessment of the Flat. Personally I think it is a great piece of equipment. It looks great, but I have mine in my basement so no one but me really get to see it. It works flawlessly, the controls are easy to use, the magnetic switch they have employed is a great idea and keeps the unit from ever being turned on accidentally. But most important it dose the job of flattening records almost perfect all the time. I say almost perfect because on one record that had a large bump on the outer edge, and a warp, it was not able to smooth out the bump, but it did fix the warp. I have used the Flat on 25 records so far and, other than that one I just mentioned, they have all come out perfectly flat. One of the things I notice now that I have the Flat is that most records are not perfectly flat, many have a slight but small warp, and you can watch the cartridge, even slightly move up and down as it plays through the record. But after placing the record in the Flat is perfectly flat. :-) I have also used it a lot on newer records as they almost all seem to come with a slight warp, but that is easily fixed now. The Relax program seems to work as bluewolf describes. I hear that there is slightingly more weight to the sound now. For me the sound is slightly more forward in the mid range and fuller all around, the highs are more clear yet not as harsh. The two programs seem to be similar, but the main difference is how long the record is kept at the target temperature of 59C. For Standard it is 50 minutes, for Relax it is 10 minutes. the cool down seems to be the same and is sort of dependant on how warm the ambient room temperature is, as it will slowly cool down until the record is less than 30C. In speaking with Oliver in Germany, if you use the Standard Program you get both the warp being fixed as well as the benefits of the Relax program. With Relax the record will sound better but you might not get a warp fixed. Any other questions just ask. |
rwwear, Thanks for posting the Link for the Vinyl Flat. I may try it. I do think that the AFI Flat would be more controlled. Most of my records are flat. Some used records that I bought have the long warps and 1 or 2 with sudden edge warps. I have multiple copies , so it is not really a problem. The AFI Flat has a RELAX function that uses lower heat and shorter heating time, but longer cooling time if I am understanding correctly. This RELAX Function supposedly RELAXS stresses in the record incurred during the pressing process; This is what I am interested in. Read bluewolfs review above for the sonic results that he reports. Even though it is a "Spendy" piece of gear.I think it would be a worthwhile accessory for Hard core vinyl fans. I have an AudioDesk Pro US cleaning machine, A VPI 16.5 for initial cleaning of used records and rinsing after US cleanig, I have a Furatech De'Mag for demagnetizing records. I think that the AFI Flat would be a worthy adddition to these tools to obtaining SQ. I have found a dealer in Canada; but the new improved version is not finalized. Michael Fremer is supposed to get an AFI Flat for review; I guess we will just need to wait until this is accomplished. I have be in contact with another user in the UK and he echos the same kind of results. |
