Reel to Reel decks

First time I knew they were "well known" for that. Too bad tape decks were used for original recordings all those years :-)

Just because someone has a preference for one source over another doesn't mean the preferred source is a more accurate reproduction of the music. Tape decks are well know for adding a gentle compression to the signal which can be interpreted as added warmth or even making the sound "bigger". It's distortion and in some cases that distortion is quite pleasant. Not accurate, put pleasant.

Orpheus10,

It is actually not theoretically impossible for a bumblebee to fly. It was simply bad physics (and myth) which said it couldn't. There have been numerous scientific papers which have 'proven' that bumblebees can fly.

That said, I admit that when I made my comment, I did not give enough weight to the idea that just because it was not a source with better fidelity to the music as played into the original microphone did not mean that it did not sound better.

Given that you are recording the CD from the analog outputs of your CD player, and putting them through more circuitry, before applying them to a medium, then playing back that medium through other analog outputs, right back through the input of the amplifier that would have been used for the CDP in the first place...

I suggest that either
1) the analog outputs of your CDP are mismatched to your pre or amp in a way that your CDP output is not mismatched to R2R or the R2R is not mismatched to your pre/amp, or
2) the R2R through the tape input on your pre is simply a better analog gain circuit than the gain circuit you are using for your CDP, or
3) you find the changes brought on by additional circuitry pleasing...

Nothing wrong with any of those answers I guess, and anyone of them could explain the perceived difference in speaker size.

T_bone, I am very glad you picked that nit. A bumble bee aint supposed to be able to fly; it's "theoretically" impossible. What I stated is "theoretically" impossible. However, when I record a CD on my 2 track Technics reel to reel; it becomes the same as a perfect analog record, and sounds much better than the original. As a matter of fact, the playback even increases the apparent size of the speakers.

Orpheus10,
I don't want to pick nits, but I will anyway...

There is no better quality of stereo reproduction than reel to reel tape.

A lot of people will agree with this.

My tapes are better than the original source.

I hope there are not a lot who will agree with this.

While I stated tape is expensive, I now realize, that is relative. There is no better quality of stereo reproduction than reel to reel tape. My tapes are better than the original source. But that comes at a price; my tapes are half track, which means one way on 1/4 inch tape.

Buconero;

respectfully i want to echo Kipdent's comments and strongly disagree with your perspective on Blue-ray disc music performance compared to 1/4" 15ips master tape dubs.

you wrote;

Given a listen to the latter blu ray and I think you will forget about reel to reel.

please help us understand why you feel this way and describe what Blue-ray music disc was better than a 1/4" 15ips master dub to the degree to suggest 'you will forget about reel to reel tape'.

repeatedly you jump on RTR threads with baseless claims of Blue-ray music superiority without one example of that ever happening.

thread from last year;

post 1

post 2

post 3

post 4

again; tell us where your claims come from besides thin air.

btw; i have no problem with you claiming 1/4" 15ips master dubs are expensive......they are. and value is a matter of opinion.

I have to respectfully disagree with Buonero's repeated promotion of Blu-ray discs holding the promise of better sonics than tape. I own a few now and there is simply no contest. In my experience, the analog magic, depth, dynamics and wonderful musical nuances are all there in spades in 15 ips tapes--and not on Blu-ray.

Although I have two reels, I concur with others. Tape is expnsive, put your computer hardrive to work for recording.

I had 2 diff. Teac RTR's in the 70's & 80's, & I was very happy with them, until the 2nd one broke the 2nd time. Like others have said, tape decks, RTR, or cassette, are gonna' need repairs every so often. And the better RTR decks tend to be hugely heavy, & where are you going to ship it/schlep it, when it breaks?

I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't do it tho.....

I grew up listening to my old man's concertone R2R deck.
We usually did Our own recording & very rarely purchased any pre recorded material.
I still have a bunch of tapes stored away & recently had
a friend give Me his old Teac deck which is in nice shape
except It has an issue, motors inside rotate but the reel
does not.
I am hoping I can get it repaired without going broke since I love spinning tape! (& miss it).
I realize new tape is hard to come buy, about a month ago
I snatched up a couple of brand new sealed Tapes (American Recording) at a yard sale for a buck each.

Have many decks, technics, tascam, teac, sony. In addition to the commercial seven inch pre-recorded tapes, I have a large library of ten inch pre-recorded tapes that were used in radio stations. These latter tapes include Drake, Century, Media General, Radio Arts and AFRTS. The quality of the tapes are all over the lot. The AFRTS among the best, as the government spent big bucks to produce them, some of which have almost 55 cuts on a track, and with auto reverse cueing the tape can go for hours and hours. On the seven inch tapes the Barclay Crocker are the best. Analogue still lives.

I have heard the Tape Project tapes at the CES and they are truly great, sound wise but not value wise. So, to get started with a modified Technics 1500 and some software you are talking $5K plus.

I caution newbies that decks are expensive to maintain as parts are hard to find. My advice is skip reel to reel and invest in blu ray audio media, which I think is the future. The transfers from the original master tapes are being done by many labels now, including the soon to be release Miles/Blue which will be the original three track mono, without a mix. Given a listen to the latter blu ray and I think you will forget about reel to reel.

I know that, Myles. So you only have to invest $2000 or $3000 all at once, for music available at maybe $100 total, on CD. Figure it on a cost-per-music-minute some time. Yeah, I know the tapes sound better, but for a newbie starting out, I really can't justify that kind of expense. Glad you can :-)

Dopogue:

Actually the Tape Project tapes are $350 each for the series 2 if one gets a subscription for 6 or 10 tapes.

Yes, 15 and 30 ips tapes are the ne plus ultra of tapedom. But let's get real,
folks, a would-be tape newbie will be totally turned off by the prices of tapes
(Handyman, would you believe $500 per Tape Project performance?) and the
machines capable of playing them.

I would recommend visiting the Ebay sites, as well as Audiogon of course, to
get a fix on prices of tapes and equipment. Buying used tapes (there are
precious few new ones) is pretty much of a crapshoot, and buying used tape
decks -- there are essentially NO new ones -- is dicey as well. The decks
need regular service and finding competent tape techs is no picnic either. I
know I've painted a gloomy picture, but there IS a plus side in terms of fidelity
and just the fun of watching those reels spin. It can be addictive but you do
need to know what you're getting into.

As a starter deck, I'd recommend a Teac in the 2300 or 3300 series or a
Pioneer 700 or 900 series, and avoid brands like Akai (very hard to find parts
and Akai is not alone in this respect). I've been into tape since the 1950s, but
if I were starting out today I'd think long and hard about it. Good luck, Dave

Hi, I've owned a lot of reel to reel decks from Revox {had 4 of these]Sony's, Vikings, and Tandbergs. Am useing 3 decks in my system now, and have 2 Pioneer decks that I love,one is a mint 707 and the other is a 1011-L, they are built beautiful and sound great and are a lot less trouble than most of the Revox's I owned, parts are available and so are the machines.Of course have a slew of tapes from the past and present. Just remember you need to run these decks quite often no matter which one you decide on, they don't like sitting idle for long periods..

I have a Technics reel to reel. I use it to record my vinyl. I recomend Revox because you can still get parts; although I have never had a problem with the Technics.

I owned a reel to reel machine 35 years ago. I loved it. I kept it for about ten years. I never bought any pre-recorded tapes. The only tapes that I played on my machine were my LP's that I recorded to tape. When I went to record stores in the mid 70's and 80's, I never saw any open reel tapes for sale. I saw them advertised in magazines in those monthly music clubs, but I wouldn't be bothered with mail ordered music. I wouldn't be bothered with a reel to reel today. To me, it would be more trouble that it's worth.

Hi Handymann,

Mike offers sage advice. I would respectfully advance that 15 and 30 ips reel is the acme of analogue reproduction.

Regards,
Sam

about 3 years ago something called 'The Tape Project' was started and it caused a real RTR tape resurgence to occur.

i'd recommend going to The Tape Project Forum here.

there are also tape boards on many audiophile websites. do a search here on Audiogon for reel to reel tape and you can read some threads.